Rear-sump FE pan install in 4x2 truck; clearance problem.

[robroy]

Hey SideOilerFE thanks for replying!

You could be right. I guess I've gotten hooked in the idea of having extra oil around, and the pan from my 360 isn't looking so hot. It would need to be totally refinished. And my 360 always ran so poorly I wouldn't want it to jinx my new 390.

Maybe if the steering idea doesn't work out a compromise could be a Milodon 31130, which would be around $415 total. At least that's a 7 quart pan.



Thanks again SideOilerFE!
Robroy

[iamthewreckingcrew]

I'm going to have to agree with the stock pan route. I'm putting my 460 in with the front sump pan. I thought it might be nice to not have any oil mess when changing oil, but I also don't want to run into the problems you are having.

I don't have it made yet, but I'm going to make a custom "funnel" to change my oil. Gonna be some sheetmetal like they use to build ductwork. I'll make it so it will have a couple of hangers that will wrap back over the rear of the crossmember. It's hard to explain in words, but it will be kind of like a dustpan with a taper to the front so it will drain into a drain pan.

Maybe I'll make up a model and take a picture.

[robroy]

Hey IAmTheWreckingCrew,

That oil drain device you're describing sounds good.

After taking a closer look at my photos of the steering area, I'm now thinking that under full compression (when the I Beams are hitting the frame bumpers), those steering arms really must swivel up dramatically. Maybe this is why Ford put oil pans in there with really skinny areas towards the rear of the engine--to be certain that the pans cleared the steering arms under all conditions.

Thanks IAmTheWreckingCrew!
Robroy

[kaptnkaos]

I don't remember which thread it was, but Keith posted pics of the one he made... perhaps you can PM Keith and get a pic...

KaptnKA S

[sideoilerfe]

I would sand blast the 4X2 pan and use it. Mine has worked for 11 years with no problems.

[DuckRyder]

I don't think the front sump 7 qt will clear the crossmember.

Just put the milodon "stock" replacement (it is a CJ style.) on it with a factory CJ windage tray. Short of 5000 rpm dragstrip launches on slicks it'll handle anything you can throw at it.

[DuckRyder]

Also, any idea why Milodon says "except truck" in their brief application guide? I'll call or write them and get more information.

No idea, wondered tha myself. When you call, if they say it won't fit a 4x2, tell them they need to come on down and scold the one on my truck for being a naughty and working fine... It has late CJ type baffles, a stock truck pan has "68" pan style baffles.

http://www.428cobrajet.com/id-oilpan.html

There are also pictures of the CJ style windage tray which simply sandwiches between the oil pan and block. Not sure what it may currently have on it.

[robroy]

Robert, thanks! If this pan was "good enough" to be a factory item on the 428CJ engines it's probably good enough for my application too. And it's nice to know that it fits at least one 4x2 Bumpside (yours)!

I'll call and interview them about it.

Thanks again Robert,
Robroy

[robroy]

Just called Milodon! Here are the questions I asked and paraphrased answers:

Here are the pans we're talking about, so the part numbers will make sense:

Part number 30550 (on #50 today):



Part number 30740 (on Robert's truck, and probably the one I'll choose for #50):



Part number 31130 (7 quart front sump FE pan):

1. My engine for my 1972 F250 4x2 390 came with a 30550, which hits the steering linkage. Which other pans would you recommend that would clear the steering?
   

   Your truck takes a front sump pan, so we'd recommend the 30740.

2. Does the 30550 have a windage tray that I'd need to remove, or does it only have internal baffles?
   

   It has a windage tray, which is part 32224. But it's easy to remove. It just sandwiches between the pan and the engine block.

3. Is the windage tray for the 30740 (which is part number 32224) roughly the same as the 1969 428CJ tray?
   

   No, it's a completely different tray, and it's better than the 428CJ tray.

4. What's the story behind the "except truck" note on the 30740 pan?
   

   They had a custom who hit an issue installing that pan in an F350, so they put that note on there. But it should work fine on other trucks.

5. Will the 31130 pan fit my truck?
   

   Yes, it should, because the sump should go in front of the crossmember. So it shouldn't be hanging over the crossmember where it could hit it.

Regarding my final question about the 31130 fitting the 4x2 Bumpside truck, I'm not sure if this guy was correct about the sump sticking out in front of the crossmember. Is that how they normally fit? I'll have to look at some photos to see, but I think I remember the whole front sump hovering right over the crossmember, not sitting down in front of it.

Thanks for the recommendation Robert!

Robroy

[rjewkes]

I offer to you the idea of having a machine/welding shop put you a drain plug in te pan on the front of it where it clears the crossmember, or fab up some catch that would sit ontop of the cross member and catch the oil and let it slide down this surface to the catch tub.

and the 30740 looks the closest to the stock pan, but properly instsalled the stock pan has an inch or two or three clearance between it anmd the crossmember. all of mine have had the sump sit over the crossmember.

[robroy]

Hey Rjewkes,

Thanks for the idea! You know, I think I will do that. Now is my chance, and I will be happy I did it for a good long time.

With the drain plug at the front of the pan it won't be located at the lowest point, I don't think, but I can always park my truck on a hill to change the oil I guess! It's better than it getting all over everything every time I change it!

And thanks for letting me know the sump sits right over the crossmember; that's what I was kind of remembering. That pretty much means that the Milodon "stock" pan is the one.

Thanks Rjewkes!
Robroy

[DBossMan]

Tim, that looks very interesting! Nine and twelve quarts--that's a lot of oil!

Did the pan feel as sturdy as a pan meant for automobiles? I'd wonder about that since I'd imagine that boat engines might not encounter the same sudden shocks that a car delivers to its engine.

So is your crew cab a 4x2 or 4x4? If it's a 4x2 and the 9 quart pan fits with no issues, I'll be very interested in that!

Also, does your crew' have a 390 in it? I notice that they sell the pan for a 427/428--I'm not sure if this is exactly the same as the 390 (enough for this pan to bolt right up).

Thanks Tim!!!
Robroy

Yes, the pan is as sturdy as any I have ever had my hands on. Its a real quality piece. They are also fairly expensive.

FWIW, my truck has a 428 but the pan would fit any FE (352/360/390/427/428/etc). WHen I built the engine, I put a front sump Ford Motorsport pan on it. It pissed me off every time I went to change the oil because the oil drain was right on top of the cross member.

If you want to do it right, get a pan from Dooley Enterprises.

Tim

[robroy]

Hey Tim! Thanks for replying!

Did you need to change your main cap bolts to install the Dooley pan? The guy I spoke with mentioned that the pan kit includes long main cap bolts, since their windage tray mounts using the main cap bolts (instead of being sandwiched in like the 428CJ tray).

And is your truck a 4x2?

Thanks very much!
Robroy

[robroy]

As suggested by Dustin I disconnected the steering linkage and lowered the engine down. After doing this I immediately realized the benefits of doing so; it's just so much easier to work on the thing when it's resting the way it's supposed to, and when the cherry picker is out of the way. Thanks Dustin!

Here's the linkage disconnected from under the truck:



You can see how far the linkage dropped when I disconnected it. At this point, the linkage is hitting the insides of the radius arms (where it passes through them), and that's what's holding it up at that level.



I eyeballed the scenario for a long time, and I don't see a way to make the steering work with that pan. Even if I could press it down low enough to work, it would be too low--it could drag on things I run over in the future (or be smashed loose by something I run over). So it's definitely time for a different pan as we've already discussed!

I also took some measurements today.

From the bottom of the engine block to the crossmember it's about 6 1/2 ". So that disqualifies the Milodon 31130 (8" sump) right there! Also, the pan (and engine block) stick out about 3 1/2 " past the end of the crossmember, so any front sump pan will have its sump right over the crossmember--there's no way the front sump would sit down in front of the crossmember.

So this means there are two finalists for the pan! It's one of these two:

Milodon 30740:



Dooley Enterprises 9 Quart full sump pan:



Any opinions on which to choose from these two? If I want to avoid problems I should probably go with the Milodon, although I would have the added hassle of having a custom drain plug made in that. The Dooley, on the other hand, has a drain plug in a good location from the factory. The Dooley is also four or five times the price, but still within reason.

Thanks for all the superb advice!
Robroy

[DBossMan]

Hey Tim! Thanks for replying!

Did you need to change your main cap bolts to install the Dooley pan? The guy I spoke with mentioned that the pan kit includes long main cap bolts, since their windage tray mounts using the main cap bolts (instead of being sandwiched in like the 428CJ tray).

And is your truck a 4x2?

Thanks very much!
Robroy

Yes, I bought the longer main cap bolts, matching windage tray, and extended oil pickup from them when I bought the pan. My truck is a 4x2.