Gonna pull my Cruis-"O". UPDATE

[vwfreak]

My '67 F250 is starting to leak profusely from everywhere AFAICT.... It seems to shift okay at this point and a pal of mine has a shop that is great with tranny builds/rebuilds. I talked to them today about complete cleaning, checking every component, reseal, friction plates in converter (is that right..?), reassembly and dyno testing this old trans. They suggested getting it done because I have no way of verifying anything was ever done to it by the previous owners AND it was 2+ quarts low when I got it (wouldn't stay in gear without fluid top off). Also, I have talked to another shop and they seemed very hesitant to touch it at its age because they don't want to be "blamed" if it starts to crap out if I hire them to reseal/service it in its current state. I also figure it may be worth it because I am hoping I can swap the heavily leaking rear seal while the trans is out.

So,,,, I have done plenty of this with my old VWs, but not with a full size Ford. I did a motor swap in my '78 F150 with 3sp manual once but left the trans in place. What do I need to plan for? Also, should I loosen the pan and drain the ATF first?

[basketcase0302]

There's a couple of guys here that are awesome when it comes to "slushboxes", (I love mine-can't drive a clutch anymore due to back issues and pushing the clutch constantly). But to start with...yes, drain the fluid by dropping the pan (then put the pan back on to keep crap out of the tranny). I always leave a few bolts in the front and let it "tilt" down-rather than drop it all at once which I've always made a big mess doing.
Hopefully one of the guys will chime in soon here on what best to do with the cruisamatic.

[Donnie]

...Any good shop will not reseal or "flush" & offer a fluid change to a unit this old...I would find a shop with an older tech with many years of service, prefer an independent shop where you can find a tech that used to work in the field & opened his own shop. These old COM's are a bit tougher to build than a C4 or C6....There are roller bearings in these units that are NOT caged & can come falling out by the dozens if a dedicated block is not used to keep them in place...A good tech can use trans jel if he knows where to use it.. They are not difficult to build, just different and many younger folks do not understand them. Only because they are building current units.
There are no friction clutches in your converter, only in your trans. 2 clutch packs & 2 bands....The gear train is of the "RAVIGNEAUX" design as opposed to the less complicated "SIMPSON" gear train used in the C4 & C6 trannys.
The advice to rebuild rather than to reseal is solid advice....Because the last one to touch it is the one you will return to if ANYTHING fails.
Fatsco trans parts in N.J. will have any parts that you will need that you can't find for this unit..A lot of people dislike this unit because of it's weight and parts availability ..Other opinions may appear & differ, but that is my ...............Good Luck..........Donnie

[vwfreak]

Thanks basketcase302. So far that fits with what I have heard.


Donnie, the shop I have contacted is Hughes in PHX. They at least sound familiar with the COM. Said they completed one last week in fact. They also sound as if they are very complete even including about a 1 hour dyno test after the rebuild, and they'll back it all up too. They just don't want a truck attached to it when they receive it....

So, I have to drop this one and deliver it. I'm looking for any advice on how-to. My hot rodding neighbor has offered to help and he sounds like he knows about pulling a trans. Said a friend has a "Trans jack" that we really should use rather than a standard floor jack. Suggested pulling the drive shaft and letting it drain there. Also said its usually terribly messy with fluid going everywhere and I'd like to drain as much as possible so I will likely let the pan loose to get as much out as possible. Of course he won't let me toss it in the trunk of his '55 Chevy Bel Air to deliver it to Hughes so I have to find another truck I can borrow. Any other advice from you experts??

Also, will I be able to access my incompetent rear main seal once the trans is out? It likes to leak oil.... Not sure if there is enough room for me to swap it out. I can start another thread or search the forum on this subject if needed.

They are quoting me $614.00 and a bit of change based on what they charged the fellow last week. Is this reasonable? Doesn't sound too bad to me given I get a completely refreshed tranny when it's done.

JIM

[Donnie]

Jim, if you are speaking of the Hughes Trans on McDowell Road........Not to worry, they have a GOOD reputation...They have a "in the house dyno to check your trans before you install it".....If you are getting your trans built & a remfg converter from them for 6 & change, this is a very good price...Ask them what they want you to do , cooler wise so as to keep your warranty in good standing..BTW, what have they said concerning your warranty........Some builders get twitchy, when they sell a bench build as they are not doing the install.
Many mistakes can be made doing the install.
Also, do as Basket said, drop the pan & let it drain overnite into a large pan, Also drain the converter, you will not get much out of the drive shaft drop unless you stand the truck on end
The shop will appreciate getting an empty trans to toss on the bench ........................Donnie

[72BahamaBlue]

And for transporting, set trans. on an old bare tire. Makes a nice cushion, helps keep it from skidding and bouncing.

[vwfreak]

Jim, if you are speaking of the Hughes Trans on McDowell Road........Not to worry, they have a GOOD reputation...They have a "in the house dyno to check your trans before you install it".....If you are getting your trans built & a remfg converter from them for 6 & change, this is a very good price...Ask them what they want you to do , cooler wise so as to keep your warranty in good standing..BTW, what have they said concerning your warranty........Some builders get twitchy, when they sell a bench build as they are not doing the install.
Many mistakes can be made doing the install.
Also, do as Basket said, drop the pan & let it drain overnite into a large pan, Also drain the converter, you will not get much out of the drive shaft drop unless you stand the truck on end
The shop will appreciate getting an empty trans to toss on the bench ........................Donnie

That's the place Donnie. I haven't asked too much about guarantee, just said they would guarantee it if they rebuilt it. They wont do the r/r so I guess I need to inquire about their policy... They want the trans and converter so I guess I get my original units back. My next door neighbor is a pal of theirs and he speaks highly of them. They are going to rebuild his turbo 350 this next week for him and he won't let anyone touch his car unless he knows they are more than capable. I have a newer 6 pass cooler mounted in front of the radiator already. I am sure it is recent and a replacement for the original which I understand came on all Camper Specials. Maybe it's enough??

Basket, I measured and there is definitely no room to stand this truck on end inside the garage. I can do it outside but would have to complete the entire job in one weekend before the HOA sends any goons around. I am sure I can't have a vertical truck whether registered or not parked out front.

I don't have any extra tires Bahama, but I won't have a useable truck to transport the trans in either. Both hurdles to leap when I reach them I guess.

JIM

[TNIceWolf]

Wrap the grungy trans in several layers of heavy duty garbage bags and duct tape for transport.

[vwfreak]

Trans is out. It was a moderately big job but working steady with my neighbor it went fine. Drained two gallons of fluid out. took off all the bits and raised the back of the output shaft slightly to rest it on a jack stand. Then we used a piece of 3/4" plywood large enough to support the entire bottom of the tranny on a regular floor jack. I tried to borrow my neighbor's friend's trans jack but it was loaned out to someone else at the time. With the jack all the way down we had only to raise one side of the truck about 4" to slide it out from underneath. We had it out and the floor cleaned up inside of 3 hours. I am certain it has been worked on before as most of the nuts and bolts were only hand tight and the top two bell housing bolts were only screwed halfway in. Also there is a nicely painted blue thingy behind the torque converter and I am wondering if it is newer than 45 years old.... What will be annoying is if I take this in for a rebuild and it doesn't need it. I understand the though process as discussed earlier in the thread though.... Maybe it won't cost as much if there's really not much to do. I would love it i f the shop said it needs cleaning and resealing for less!!

Now I have access to the back of the motor and want to change the rear seal. I see a recent thread about r/r rear main seal on a 302 and am wondering how similar that is. I will follow along that thread and see how to do this unless someone wants to chime in here.

[Donnie]

Hey V dub man, the blue thingy is the front pump, it is responsible for the distribution of ALL fluid in the trans & converter.. \
It has been replaced somewhere along the line...BTW, thanks for the progress report, not everyone takes time to let us know if our info was helpful or not........you have chosen a GOOD shop to build your unit,,,,Don't forget to check the line up dowel pins in the rear of the block, some times they get pushed in or pulled out , make sure that they are there & are clean....& tell the repair shop about the loose bolts, if enough of them were loose the holes in the case may need attention...........I'm sure that they will check this on the bench, or if they are missed on the bench, the Dyno man will see them....Trivia info: the bolts do not align the trans to the block, the dowel pins do............Donnie

[vwfreak]

Thanks Donnie. I'll keep updates coming.

The top two bolts were the only ones not tight. My neighbor said that isn't uncommon as many that do the work are either lazy or just forget to go back up there. I will torque them down a bit better this time myself. I plan to r/r the motor soon to reseal it completely so I won't tighten them too much....

I haven't been back under the truck since Sunday and will look for dowel pins. I hadn't noticed any when we pulled the trans out. Was preoccupied. I know to look for them now. I am also trying to remember,,,, Are some of the bolts that hold the bell housing to the motor of different lengths? I guess I should figure that out before I try to reinstall. Also some must go into oil galleys or something because I noticed dark engine oil on the floor where the bolts got set down. Now, I am on the continuous oil change plan and my oil always looks new so I am wondering where the old dark looking stuff came from....

Speaking of reinstalling, the shop said they ought to have it back to me in 8-10 days. They said there wasn't much they could do performance-wise with that obsolete trans, but they knew a few tricks to get crisper shifting. Something about how the valve is machined...? Also they are going to rework the stall converter to make the truck perform a touch better off the line. Not sure what that means exactly but maybe they are going to add a bit of stall? Whatever they do won't hurt over all performance, and when I get it back it won't be LEAKING!

JIM

[vwfreak]

Hughes called Thursday and let me know the trans was done. They completed it 9/14 (I had dropped it off 9/10!!) but weren't able to dyno it until Thursday. They said it had received some reseal efforts and a pump in the past but nothing else. Clutches were original as were all internals. They replaced the clutches and completely cleaned and rebuild the unit. They opened my converter and rebuilt that as well as adding some stall to it for better off the line performance. The fellow laughed when he rolled the trans out to my car. He was sure it wouldn't fit.... Fit it did, (I knew it would) and it's home now pending help toting it into the garage. I hope to fix up an exhaust leak (connection btwn manifold and pipes) and then reinstall tomorrow. Through the plastic it looks completely repainted grey but it could be just thoroughly cleaned. Will post additional pictures when I get a better look.

Here it is as it sits now:

[ForingaMex]

Nice Beetle What year?

[vwfreak]

Nice Beetle What year?

Ah, trying to hijack this thread and steer it toward vintage VW's? Sweet!!

This car is a '70 model which my aunt purchased new. I grew up riding in it and eventually bought it from her in '88 when she wanted a newer ride (she got a Fox). I have never not owned a VW having come home from the hospital in a brand new '67 Beetle, and that very car was my first car. It was wrecked in '85 and my dad ended up selling it but I wish I had kept it. Almost anything can be fixed with those cars.... Looking back the damage wasn't very bad either. It needed a front clip, hood, bumper and brackets and probably fenders and it wasn't even damaged enough to keep me from opening the hood. Anyway, this '70 is a Yukon Yellow version and I drive it regularly.

Back to the p/u trans, here are pics from this morning prior to install.





Trans was in fact cleaned and painted and the converter was opened for rebuild as well. It was built to Hughes F2 stall specs so it has a bit higher stall speed than stock for better acceleration from a stand still. Trans got new clutches (among other parts) and they modified the valve body for more crisp shifting. Got it in with no problems today and it works fine. Shifting is actually quite smooth with regular driving and it's sometimes difficult to tell when it does shift. However if I get my foot in it and cause a downshift it sharply snaps down to second and then hits hard into third. There is no hesitation when it shifts. It just snaps into the next gear. I'll have a better report after I drive it for a bit.

JIM


edit:

I almost forgot the "before" picture!!!