Driving with a 4spd (np435)

[1971ford]

Today was the first day driving my '69 f250 4x4 restoration project after 3 years of work. It has a 390 and a 4spd np435. I did not rebuild the 390 or the 4spd and did not split them because I had no need to. I did take the 4spd's cover off to take off/put on the cab easier and put it back on and it seems to be on right because it shifts through all the gears fine.

So that's the info on my setup now I have a few questions.
1) 1st gear nobody uses of course for daily driving... but what bout second? Half of the day I started out in 2nd and the other half i started out in 3rd. Any reason not to start in third? Unless you're on a hill

2)How much of a wine should the 4spd make? I'm talking about the typical manual transmission wine when there is compression in the engine and well im not really sure where the wine comes from but it's apparent on almost all older stick shifts. For example I'll be going 45 and this is where my 4.10 gears and 32" tirse start to suck and I get a very loud "wine" from the tranny, espeically if I am not giving it gas. My cab is fully sound deadened and I can't hear the engine at all but this wine is just so overpowering... just wondernig if its normal or if any new parts would lessen the noise?

3) When In 4th gear cruising about 45-50 (where 4.10's and 32's begin to suck) and the engine/tranny starts to wind and compression starts to kick in, If I push the clutch in and then let it out slowly the gears grind a litlte in the tranny. If I dump the clutch the gears don't grind but there is a great force that kicks in immediately and the tires might even lock for a split second... is this just because of the engine's compression? Normal?
It's annoying when I see a red light way up ahead, I push the clutch in to coast to the stop light starting at about 50mph, light turns green, I let the clutch out to give it gas to speed up and BAM either I nearly lock the rear wheels up or I grind the gears.

4)When cruising at just about any speed, foot on the gas or not but clutch not pushed in, there is a little rattle/grinding noise coming from the shifter. It's not really a bad grinding noise or else I would'nt drive it in risk of damaging gears, but it's just a little rattle type of grind... it's annoying. I can grab the shifter and just barely move it around in that gear and i can get it to go away a little bit.


I'll see if i can get my brother to co-drive with his HD video camera and get some video of all of this.

Thanks

[70_F100]

Ryan, most manual transmissions (truck-type) will have SOME noise. Without actually hearing it, it's hard to say whether or not yours is abnormal.

Also, on the NP435's, it's pretty common to hear some rattle coming from the shift lever.

One thing, though, that I gleaned from your "narrative" was that it sounds like you're new to driving a vehicle with a manual transmission (correct me if I'm wrong ). Because of that, it sounds like you're making the same "rookie" mistake a lot of people make. You said that you push in the clutch to coast to a stop light, starting at about 50 MPH. WHY???? There's no reason to do that, as the engine compression will help you slow the vehicle down. Just let off the gas, just as you would do with an automatic. You can also downshift as your speed decreases, thus using the mechanical advantage of your drivetrain to gain additional stopping power. That's one more advantage of a manual, in that it helps save wear on your brakes, especially with the larger tires you have. If you think about it, even with an automatic, you're never truly "coasting" as the transmission never really goes into a "freewheel" mode.

One other way to think about it is by relating it to driving a road tractor (semi-truck). Nearly all of them nowadays are equipped with some sort of engine brake (they're even becoming popular on smaller trucks with diesel engines). Why is that? They use engine compression and drivetrain advantage to help slow the truck.

Not trying to be a smart @$$, just giving you some pointers from someone who started working on the big rigs back in the early 70's!!

Get those videos posted, and maybe myself or someone else can comment on the noises you're hearing.

Glad you finally got your project to move under its own power!!!

[1971ford]

Great thanks for the help
Yep you guess it I am new at manual's
Before driving the bump for the first time yesterday I had about a total of 30minutes driving a stick shift car. It's extremely simple its not like it takes a while to learn. Haven't stalled once.

Letting compression slow you down and not pushing the clutch in makes sense, after reading this earlier today and driving to work and back I didn't do this and it worked out just fine.
I borrowed my brothers HD DSLR that records nice video and recorded some driving, I'll try to get that up soon.

Really my biggest annoyance with the 4spd is just the rattling. Especially after I take my foot off the gas and the compression starts to slow it down it rattles the loudest. I got a little bit of it in the video.

[1971ford]

Watch in HD if you can

The first part of the video I forget to push in the clutch when reversing out the driveway thats why the gears grind a little

At about 00:36 is the trans noise im talking about, you can hear it all throughout the video.

1:19 and 1:54 the annoying rattle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E6CG7l4_sA

[70_F100]

Ryan, that rattle does not sound extremely abnormal. Some, maybe, but not a lot. Remember that the shifter itself, being nothing but a long piece of steel, will amplify any noise from most any of the drivetrain components.

What concerns me is the gear noise. What I hear doesn't sound like it changes pitch from one gear to another. It sounds more like the frequency just gets higher as your speed increases.

There are only a couple of things that would cause that, because in each position of the shifter, a different set of gears is engaged in the transmission. The only common links within the transmission would be the mainshaft (output shaft), as it increases in direct proportion with the speed of the vehicle. That could mean a bad output shaft bearing. The other things that increase in speed at the same rate as the output shaft on the tranny would be the intermediate shaft (assuming you're using a divorced transfer case setup), the transfer case input and output, and the driveshaft (oh, and of course, the rear differential).

Given these conditions, and without the risk of sounding like a smart @$$, are you sure the transfer case is not engaged? In fact, it sounds almost like the transfer case is in low range (if you have a dual-range transfer case). That, coupled with the high RPM's at road speed and low shift points (disregarding the 4.10 rear) lead me to believe that is what you're hearing as far as gear noise. That would be my first guess, and I don't mind being proven wrong. It's easy enough to check, just see if you can turn the front driveshaft with the vehicle parked (and the front hubs unlocked). Check this and report back to us.

Oh, and to avoid gear grinding in granny low and reverse, you can shift into one of the other forward gears (2, 3 or 4) after depressing the clutch to stop the internals of the transmission from spinning before you shift into either of the unsynchronized gears.

[1971ford]

Thanks again for the input. Much appreciated...

I'm thinking the t-case is engaged
I was tightening driveshaft u-bolts and put the t-case in 4-lo or 4-hi and maybe I didn't put it back in neutral. I will check during lunch today because I am dying to check. If it is simply engaged then I am going to be so relieved and happy and stupid

Nice tip on the gear grinding into low and reverse as well...

[70_F100]

It needs to be in 2-Hi.

Just like the transmission, if you put it in neutral, you're not going anywhere...

[1971ford]

It needs to be in 2HI????
I've been putting it in Neutral every time I drive it. But I do go places Are you saying if the t-case is in neutral i shouldn't move? I know I've driven it in neutral (what I have beend doing all along. I get the shifter up all the way forward and take it back one).

Is this the reason for the gear noise then?

[70_F100]

Very possibly.

What transfer case do you have? Can you post a picture of the transfer case shift knob?

[1971ford]

t-case is stock divorced '69 highboy t-case.
Shift knob has 4 spot. If you push shifter most forward it says you're in 2hi. go one back and you're in neutral. those two I am sure about, not sure about 4 hi and 4 lo.

So it looks like this

2HI
N
4HI
4LO

But the 4HI/4LO might be switched. I don't have a picture handy but ill check on the truck this afternoon.

[70_F100]

Something is definitely not right.

The stock transfer case for that vehicle should be a Dana 24.

The shift pattern should be like this:

4LO
N
2HI
4HI

Now, reading up on this from the site, there is an "undocumented and not recommended 5th position between 4LO and N which gives you a 2LO" which may be what you're getting into, which would also explain the gear noise and high RPM's at driving speeds. You might have found that "undocumented" gear!!

Click on this link and scroll down to about the middle of the page: http://www.fordification.com/tech/transfercase.htm

2HI is where you want the transfer case when driving on dry, hard-surfaced roads. 4HI would be in conditions such as snow (yeah, I know you get a lot of that in CA...). 4LO would be used for pulling heavy loads in adverse conditions, such as off-road or in muddy conditions.

[1971ford]

Well now I know not to go off my memory. You are right, it is

4LO
N
2HI
4HI.

I got out of school and got in the truck, shifted to 2HI with the t-case stick and headed home.

WOW it's a whole new truck! hahaha It is amazing how much nicer the truck drives
The gears arn't nearly as short, the shifter doesn't do the annoying rattle, and I got it to a bout 50mph and the engine hadn't started to wind up at all!

Only problem is, that I look like a tard.

[Caseys71]

Only problem is, that I look like a tard.

, At least you've got it worked out now.

[bluef250]

The only real 'tards out there are the ones who don't ask questions.

[AK F100]

Nice to hear ya got it figured out, and it didn't cost a dime.