385 series heads?

[hotrod ford]

been learning about 429/460 heads today. i guess the 72 429 was the only year that ford used open chambers for these heads. i also learned that 73's and up are just as good as c8, c9, d0's. so with that, what would be the last year of the 385 series?

[flatblack]

460s have went for a long run, i used to drive a 95 ford tow truck that had a fuel injected 460. all cast heads are good if you got the money for machine work. if not the best bet is a set of D0 heads , later in the seventys every engine was choked out with smog.

[hotrod ford]

man, that stinks. i don't know how manny heads that i have passed up because they where after 1971. i always hear about the 68'' to 70. now i know and knowing if half the battle!! g. i..... just joking.

[flatblack]

im no 460 expert by any means but check out http://460ford.com/forum/, tons and tons of info on the site
good luck

[hotrod ford]

yep, i know that site. i was told by a buddy here. thats where i learned about those heads. thanks though.

[BobbyFord]

C8VE, C9VE and D0VE heads are all about the same and the best cast 385 head. The later heads have larger combustion chambers. Stock early heads with a zero deck flat top piston will result in approx. 11:5+ compression ratio. Depending on the cam, capable of running pump fuel.

[willowbilly3]

I don't think they are all the same, I had D2 heads on a 429 that had a huge thermactor lump in the exhaust port that my C9s didn't have.

[papabug71]

I know squat about the 385 series motors, but my ThunderJet had D0VE heads on it & guys were always asking me to sell them just the heads...

Must mean they are good for something....

[averagef250]

For as common as the C8, C9 and D0 heads are I don't know why anyone would start with D3's. The early heads have tighter chambers for better squish.

The early blocks are much better for power as well. The 71 and later blocks have a taller deck that sits the piston down in the bore. Not good for power. If you want a real 429/460 go for the 68-70 motors. The later stuff is just smog crap that'll cost a lot more to get the same thing from.

My Ranchito 460 is just a bone stock 69 lincoln 10:1 460 bottom end with worked D0VE heads and 5500 RPM cam. You'd spend a lot of money on a later 460 to get the same thing and I bought the complete Lincoln 460 for $150 and seen many more for the same price.

[BobbyFord]

I don't think they are all the same, I had D2 heads on a 429 that had a huge thermactor lump in the exhaust port that my C9s didn't have.

C8, C9 and D0 are the same. The later heads are not the same as the early heads.

[FORDification]

The FAQs at 460Ford.com includes this little snippet about cylinder heads that I thought was pertinent to the discussion. (Normally I'd have just posted a link to the page with the info, but the link I saved this from no longer exists, and I didn't feel like spending the time trying to hunt it back down, if it even still exists.):

Factory heads (carb application) from best to worst.

• 1. D0OE - CJ heads
  2. D2OE - PI heads
  3. D0VE, C9VE, C8VE - standard heads small chamber
  4. D3VE - standard heads large chamber
  5. D2VE - great for detonation

======================================

Note: Valve inclination angles are 5 degrees / 9 degrees 30 minutes ( inclined in 2 planes) for the intake and 4 degrees 30 minutes on the exhaust. They are known as "poly angle" or "canted valve" heads. The valves open toward the bore centerline unshrouding as they open. This is an advantage compared to in line wedge heads. The flow path has a straighter shot from the back of the valves to the port entries/exits.

C8VE-A & E
1968 was the first year for the 385 series engine. The 429 was introduced in ‘68 Thunderbirds as the "Thunderjet"...the 460 was introduced in the ‘68 Lincoln line up simply as “460”. These heads have 75cc to 77cc combustion chambers. They will give about 10.5 to 1 on pre-'72 blocks assuming factory type pistons...9.5 to 1 to 10 to 1 on later blocks with increased deck height. The Thermactor-air boss and passages were not drilled for 49 state emissions. The Thermactor-air boss is slightly smaller than on later castings. Like all of the BBF castings the exhaust port needs a lot of help. The heads used positive stop shouldered rocker arm studs and cast iron rail self aligning rocker arms at 1.73 to 1 ratio. Valve sizes are 2.09" intake and 1.65" exhaust. 260 to 270 CC intake port.

C9VE-A
Basically the same as the '68 unit. Used beginning with the '69 model year vehicles includes engineering revisions to the '68 casting. 260 to 270 CC intake port.

D0VE-C
D0VE heads were a revision of the original casting. Used beginning with the '70 model year through the end of the '71 model year run. These are similar to the preceding listing. Slightly larger Thermactor-air boss...all 3 being used for passenger cars. D0VE-A is a less revised version and very similar to the D0VE-C's. The cylinder heads used from '68 to '71 are interchangeable. They will support screw-in studs without machining. 260 to 270 CC intake port.

D0OE-R
The fabled Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet castings. Combustion chamber volume comes in slightly smaller at 71cc to 75cc...11 to 1+ compression ratio with 429 flat tops, or with the dished 460 pistons. About 1/2 point lower on '72 and up blocks. Cobra Jet engines built before November, 1969 had adjustable valve train. They were non-adjustable after that date. Adjustable castings came with pushrod guide plates, sled fulcrums and stamped steel 1.73 to 1 rocker arms. Adjustable valve trains used non-shouldered rocker studs. Non adjustable valve trains used positive stop shouldered studs with 3/8" fine pitch threads on top. All Super Cobra-Jet engines used a solid lifter camshaft and adjustable valve train. Valve sizes are 2.24" intake and 1.72" exhaust. Intake ports are larger at 2.51" x 2.11" ovals. Exhaust ports are also larger at 2.25" x 1.30" rectangular oval port shape. Although the exhaust ports are larger they share similar architecture with the passenger car castings. Removal of the Thermactor-air boss along with blending of some of the weird casting bumps will help flow measurably. All of the 385 series castings suffer from a very poor intake/exhaust flow ratio. This is due to the fact that shock towers in the intermediate line up necessitated tucking the exhaust manifolds as closely as possible to the engine for clearances' sake. 300 to 310 CC intake port.

D2OE-AA, D2OE-AB and D3AE-FA
'72 to '74 Police Interceptor heads. These heads are very similar to the Cobra Jet castings with adjustable valve train. The port sizes are middle of the road between pass car and Cobra Jet. The ports are 2.20" x 1.93" intake and 2.06" x 1.31" exhaust. Valves are 2.19" intake and 1.72" exhaust and the combustion chambers come in at 87cc to 90cc's. These castings are an excellent alternative to the Cobra Jet castings and are more plentiful. In addition the reduced cross section of the intake port offers excellent low end torque and response. 290 to 300 CC intake port.

D2VE-A2A
This casting shares the same port sizes and shape with the other passenger car castings. It is basically a revised D0VE-C casting with slotted pedestal rocker arm bosses. Beware as this is the only year of the large round OPEN combustion chamber design. Chamber size is near 100cc's. Valve sizes are 2.09" intake and 1.65" exhaust. Caution! They are prone to detonation due to the lack of a quench pad and are unsuitable for high performance use! The best performance application for D2VE-AA heads is a drag anchor or door stop. The reason you can get a "smokin" deal on them is they are not very highly regarded in the performance segment for the 385 engine.

D3VE-AA, A2A
For '73 the casting was completely re-engineered. The bath tub chamber shape was back but at 97cc's. The chamber is slightly larger but the main difference is valve seat depth. The seats are .100" deeper compared to the '72 and older castings. The valves are consequently .100" shorter. They have pedestal rocker arm bosses and use stamped steel 1.73 to 1 ratio rocker arms. The short turn radius in the exhaust port is said to be improved, however the cross sectional area between the crest of the short turn and the port roof is reduced. This is said to hurt flow as compared to the older castings, which were dismal to begin with. Porting will help the exhaust port immensely. This casting number is seen on vehicles until the early '80's models trucks and '79 Lincolns. 255 to 265 CC intake port.

[hotrod ford]

im no 460 expert by any means but check out http://460ford.com/forum/, tons and tons of info on the site
good luck

these are some examples of hp build from the above site:

350-375HP 460ci

Intake System:

Holley 750 vacuum secondary
Edelbrock Performer Rpm Intake Manifold

Cylinder Heads:

Heads can be D0VE or D3VE with mild port job
(315-ish/180-ish cfm @.600)
Intake valve size 2.08
Exhaust valve size 1.65
Stock rockers.

Short Block:

Comp Cam Custom Spec Hydraulic flat tappet cam or equivalent
Based on the Xtreme Energy Hydraulic Series
Intake Lobe 5430 and Exhaust Lobe 5232
(Specs:250/268 adv., 206/218@.050, .479/.493. lift, 110 LSA)
Compression around 9.0:1
Stock crank
Stock rods
Standard volume oil pump
Stock oil pan

Exhaust:

1.75" headers to dual 2.5" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 2.5" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

91 octane. Keep redline to 5500 rpm.

375-400HP 460ci

Intake System:

Holley 750 vacuum secondary
Edelbrock Performer Rpm Intake Manifold

Cylinder Heads:

Heads can be D0VE or D3VE with mild port job and port match
(315-ish/180-ish cfm @.600)
Intake valve size 2.08
Exhaust valve size 1.65
Stock rockers.

Short Block:

Comp Cam XE262H Hydraulic flat tappet cam or equivalent
(Specs:262/270 adv., 218/224@.050, .513/.520, 110 LSA)
Compression around 9:0:1
Stock crank
Stock rods with good bolts
Standard volume oil pump
Stock oil pan with windage tray

Exhaust:

1.75" headers to dual 2.5" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 2.5" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

91-octane. Keep redline to 6000 rpm.

400-425HP 460ci

Intake System:

750cfm Holley DP professionally calibrated for your application
Edelbrock Performer Rpm Intake Manifold

Cylinder Heads:

D0VE heads with mild port job and chambers polished
(315ish/180-ish cfm flow @.600)
Intake valve size 2.08
Exhaust valve size 1.65
Stock rockers.

Short Block:

Comp Cam XE262H Hydraulic flat tappet cam or equivalent
(Specs:262/270 adv., 218/224@.050, .513/.520, 110 LSA)
Compression around 9.5:1
Stock crank
Stock rods with good bolts
Standard volume oil pump
Stock oil pan with windage tray

Exhaust:

1 7/8" headers to dual 2.5" pipes with H-pipe. Good flowing 2.5" Magnaflow mufflers or equivalent.

Summary:

91-octane. Keep redline to 6000 rpm.

it seems that anything after 400 horses you will need d0ve and older heads or aftermarket. 400 horses and down d3ve would be good to use with a mild port.

[hotrod ford]

thanks Dablack00. i have already started collecting parts that your talking about. mounts are on the way, buying an intake tomorrow and picking a set of D0VE heads when i get back. gonna be a pretty sweet ride when all is said and done.