intake manifold gasket ?

[citizendick]

in a previous post i read that you should toss the front and rear gasket strips and use just black rtv, any pros or cons? also someone said not to use fel-pro head gaskets what brand do you guys use. thanks for your thoughts citizendick

[fordman]

the only thing i can comment on is where or not to use the front and rear gaskets. yes i use them and i have never had a problem when you do it correctly. use a slight bit of weatherstrip adhesive to tack the intake gaskets into place on the head. put rtv in all four corners where the heads meet the block. put your cork or rubber/plastic gaskets on the block with rtv. if possible let dry overnight. if not being very careful put the intake into place without moving any of the gaskets. i know its hard. thats why i like to let them dry over night. put the rtv on the bottom and the top of the front and rear gaskets before intake installation. the gasket gives the rtv soemthing better to grab onto than just a metal surface.
now wheather or not you use the gaskets is up to you. but most important is to make sure the surfaces are grease and oil free or the rtv wont do anything for you with or without gaskets.

head gaskets i think the last set i used was felpro. i didnt have any problems with them. but i didnt have the car very long after that either. because the cam started working back and forth so i parted it out.

[LANCE65]

I have never had any problems with Fel-Pro gaskets. Some people use the end seals,others don't. I have grown up on small/big block Chevy engines,and those things LOVE to suck in the end seals. So I prefer to use BLACK rtv instead of the supplied seals. But like mentioned above, IT HAS TO BE CLEAN.(Sorry, NOT yelling,just emphasizing)
-Lance

[69rangerman]

Ditto on the clean part. I ended up re-doing my small block 3 times before getting it right. Get your ruler out and take a look at a 1/4" and you'll realize when you lay it down on the block that it's actually a pretty big bead.

Don't skimp - you'll end up with small puddles and mystery leaks very soon.

When you apply the RTV also make sure you give it 15 - 20 minutes to skin over and stiffen up, otherwise it just squeezes out and leaves voids.

Get a good torque wrench and follow the pattern 3 times around. Run it for a day or two, then torque it again as they'll probably have loosened a bit.

Good luck.

[citizendick]

thanks for your replys friends, everything went good taking it apart, no broken bolts or back injurys from the intake removal (damn it's heavy) have help comming to reinstall. i'll have to look it over as to use or not the end gaskets, i don't want to do this again very soon,thanks again citizendick

[Dragon]

Last thing Ford gave us 3M Weather Strip adhesive for all our sealing needs. Much harder to clean off than RTV Silicone. Using either works if it is clean Removing the end seals works with enough RTV. But the main problem is not sealing the ends totally and the manifold causing the gaskets to move as Ford FE manifolds can weigh in Aluminum at 32 and cast iron as high as 96 pounds. This makes then hard to set straight down on the gaskets. That is why a 1/4 inch bead of RTV works well. If the surface is clean it will grab and stick plus if there is a gap you can shoot a little more in. They are a bear even when you do them daily. No FE leaving my bay ever came back for leaking end seals. Glue the intake gaskets on and then the end seals let the glue set. Come back and put the rest of the sealant on top of the gaskets and lay the manifold in place. Drop the dizzy in and tighten the first bolt pass of 20 lbs. Remove the dizzy and finish tightening the cast iron manifolds down to 32 to 35 pounds using a X pattern starting in the center most bolts as 1 and 2. then the outside corners and then the in-between bolts.

The Ford book says to pre assemble the manifold but then they also say to use a hoisting bar and leveler.

[citizendick]

ok so do you use the 3m weather strip adhesive on both sides of the gasket and rtv only on the end gaskets? citizendick

[Dragon]

I use Weather strip adhesive now days on the end seals bottoms only now days and RTV every where else for easy disassembly. I have a bad leaking set and until I get my replacement Street-master manifold I am not touching it.

[fordman]

i use the weather strip adhesive for a temp holding for the gasket. on the heads. and on many other parts that just need the gasket held in place for a few minutes while i put the part on.

[Dragon]

The 3M stuff we got issued sealed against all automotive chemicals and made a darn permanent seal.

Permatex put a Challenge in one 1975 Hot Rod Magazine of a gasket-less motor. Using nothing but permatex sealants and a copper o-ring for each cylinder, the challenge was make a no leak race motor that won it's class whether drag, road or NASCAR. I built one. What a pain. We had to build intake manifold spacers to register the manifold correctly Rear and front main seals were rubber racing types but had to be sealed with Permatex where they were mounted at the block or cover. It ran and held together but it had to be clean room clean to get a good seal every where. Tear down was a pain on Saturday night before Sunday racing where the 396 ran C/SS. After 2 weekends I got my $500 check and replaced all the gaskets. Since we used copper head gaskets we still used the o-rings copper seals to help reinforce the gaskets. 13.5 to 1 compression needs all the help you can give it.

[citizendick]

thanks for the help, i'll start putting her back together on turkey day,hope thats not a jinx. dick

[My427stang]

I glue the end seals to the block with weatherstripping adhesive and let it dry.

Then immediately before assembly, I put an ever-so-light skim coat (just a wipe) of RTV on the top of the end seal

As I tighten down, the RTV acts as a lube and lets the intake slide as its torqued so it doesnt try to move the end seals. I wipe the tiny bit that pushes out with a rag to keep things pretty

Of course, whatver is left, in a very short time it hardens and helps the seal a little.

When we were doing a fleet of F series milk trucks, school busses, and the town plow trucks still had FE and FTs I learned the trick to get them in and out quick and not have to do it twice deep in an F700 engine bay.

Some people succeed without end seals, but I sure wouldnt trust it for the long term. Not to mention, look close at how oil returns from an FE head, it passes right through that area, a ton of rogue RTV pushed in and you'll have a blocked oil return from the head

[FORD428CJ]

Also The Right Stuff works very well. I have used both 3M and The Right Stuff. They are both good products

[DuckRyder]

You did not say what engine or specific manifold we are talking about but a few points if it is an FE:

1) You will get varring opinions on the best procedure for end seals, many use the cork (I do) many don't. if you are using an after market manifold you should pre fit it to ensure there is enough clearance for the end seals. It is said that Edelbrock in particular cast the rails deeper and they will not allow use of the cork. Their instructions do specify RTV.

2) Fel-Pro gaskets, and specifically the print-o-seal version are problematic on FE's. Many have replaced multiple sets and cured their problem by replacing them with Victor gaskets. Thats not to say that some don't use them sucessfully, its just that for whatever reason on an FE your odds are much better with Victor.

"The Right Stuff" does work good if you cannot use the cork.

[Dragon]

I toss the Fel-Pro end seals. I do use the manifold to head gaskets. I never did like them on any manifold. Unless it is a race motor I never use Cork seals anywhere. Cork weeps oil and other petroleum fluids over time.