Questions about unsticking a motor UPDATE

[FordTruck]

UPDATE- I bought some engine unlocking stuff and no dice so today I pulled the head and this is what I came up with.

Stuff I put in it.



First 3 cly



Last 3 cly



All of them



Head



Every thing looks ok to me so any ideas. I've tryed turning it by hand and with the impact and it wouldn't go any farther.

[70_F100]

No reason anything ther would stop it from turning. Surprisingly clean for an engine that's been sitting for such a long time.

A word of caution before we move on: DON"T USE AN IMPACT WRENCH TO TRY TO TURN IT!!! You're only tightening the bolt more, and it's subject to snap off or strip the threads in the crank. You have more force using a breaker bar and socket than an impact wrench can provide. Remember, an impact wrench "hammers" the bolt to either break it loose or tighten it, using rapid "blows" through the socket. It DOES NOT provide the even force you need to turn a crankshaft!!!

Let's look at this using some basic logic.

What we know:

1) There's nothing in the cylinders that should be locking it up.
2) you can move the crankshaft back and forth approximately 1/4 turn.

What could cause the problem:

1) Do all of the pistons move when you turn the crank? (could be a broken rod or a rod cap that has come loose) Also, if #1 & #6 are fully at TDC (or 3 & 4 are at BDC), and the rings do happen to be stuck, the crank will turn quite a ways (maybe not 1/4 turn) without trying to move the pistons
2) It looks like, based on what I can see of the shift linkage, that it has an auto tranny. There's a possibility that one of the converter bolts has come loose and is hitting against something on the back of the block.
3) If I'm wrong about the type of transmission and it's actually a manual, are you sure it's in neutral?
4) If it's a manual transmission, there's a possibility that one of the brass braking rings (synchronizer rings) is stuck to the adjacent gear. That will cause the same condition as not being in neutral. (See if the driveshaft moves when you turn the crankshaft)
5) If it's a manual transmission, is the pressure plate hitting the release fork? Turn the engine back and forth and see if the release fork moves.
6) Since you say you can move it a little more each time you try, have you checked to see if maybe it has a stuck lifter? If you have a lifter stuck in the down position, the camshaft can turn quite a bit before the lobe starts coming up. Could be more than one stuck down. (Pull the side covers off the side of the block to gain access, or just re-insert the push rods and watch them one at a time)
7) As mentioned earlier, is there a possibility that there is a mud dauber's nest inside the bellhousing? Since the starter is out, use a garden hose and flood the bellhousing with water as much as possible, watching to see if the water that runs out looks muddy. (You're not going to hurt a THING by doing this!!!)

Review these comments and respond, and maybe we can come up with something.

[FordTruck]

Well I torn into it more after school. I got that cover off of the side of the motor and it was a little rusty from sitting but I WD-40 everything and wiped it off and it looks ok now. The lifters that wern't dowe I could spin around and I got one pulled out but manged to break another one but I'll get the tool tommrrow and pull them all out.

[70_F100]

It's the ones that are down that may be causing your problem.

[OldRedFord]

How could a lifter keep the engine from turning over with the push rods removed?


FordTruck do you notice any of the pistons not moving when you try to roll the engine over?
Is it just the pic or is there grit all over where the lifters are?



The 2nd cylinder from the front, is that a reflection in the bore, or is there a deep scratch?

[70_F100]

OldRedFord, if a lifter is stuck (i.e., rusted) in its bore, the camshaft can't push it up, thereby stopping the engine from turning.

Not very likely, but possible.

By looking at this latest picture, it looks like it's an auto tranny. Since the engine hasn't turned since it was installed, I strongly suspect it's either a converter bolt or the converter wasn't seated correctly in the pump. Either of those would create the problem described here.

Now that you've taken the head off, how hard is it to turn the engine through that 1/4 turn? You should pretty much be able to turn it by hand. If it's real stiff, it's a pretty good bet the converter wasn't seated correctly. If it turns free through the 1/4 turn, look for a converter bolt. Easiest way to tell for sure is to loosen the bellhousing bolts 2-3 turns and see if it loosens up. Be sure to put a jack under the oil pan to support everything before trying this.

[FordTruck]

By looking at this latest picture, it looks like it's an auto tranny. Since the engine hasn't turned since it was installed, I strongly suspect it's either a converter bolt or the converter wasn't seated correctly in the pump. Either of those would create the problem described here.

It shouldn't be that because the motor and trans have never been apart.

FordTruck do you notice any of the pistons not moving when you try to roll the engine over?
Is it just the pic or is there grit all over where the lifters are?

All of the pistons move and there is a little dirt on the top but not a whole lot. Its kinda smeered around becasue I wiped it all off with WD-40 before the picture.

[70_F100]

Put the starter on it and try to spin it...

(Be sure to disconnect the fuel line from the tank first so that you don't cause another Chicago fire!!!

[BRUTUS_T_HOG]

been there, DRENCH all moving parts in PB blaster and just keep trying, if it ran perfect before being parked then nothing is broken, just stuck.

i JUST freed a frozen engine up a couple days ago. it took me drenching everything with PB and a 3 foot breaker bar bearing all my weight down on it in both directions to the point the bolt would loosen. it finally started moving a little more each time.. i turned the engine upside down (on a stand) and literally poured a gallon of gear oil onto the pistons. completely submerging the wrist pins. turns over great now

[bjde0b]

I didn't read everything that has been written, but this is my two cents. Get some strong drain cleaner that will eat up aluminum and put it in. It will eat through your pistons leaving a nice clean block. I can't remember my brand of preference, but it is in crystals. I am too lazy to walk out in the garage and look at what I used.

[DuckRyder]

I didn't read everything that has been written, but this is my two cents. Get some strong drain cleaner that will eat up aluminum and put it in. It will eat through your pistons leaving a nice clean block. I can't remember my brand of preference, but it is in crystals. I am too lazy to walk out in the garage and look at what I used.

Say what?

I hope this is in jest, in which case a smilie or something might be approrate...

I'm pretty sure eating through the pistons is not a goal of the original poster.

FWIW, short of something having been dropped in, I've NEVER found the cause of a motor that will turn a little from the top...

Pull the pan and you should find the trouble...

[fordman]

rust or gunk is probably his probelm around the lifters.

[70_F100]

DuckRyder makes good sense.

However, since you can turn it 1/4 turn and everything seems to be moving (pistons, lifters, etc.), and the engine was running when it was parked, there shouldn't be anything in the pan.

By that same token, you've taken it down as far as you have, so it's only a little more trouble to pull the pan. There could be something there, you never know. You probably need to replace the pan gasket anyway.

With the pan removed, you could also get the timing cover off very easily. It's possible you have a timing chain that's loose enough that it's getting ready to jump a tooth, a broken tooth that's wedged in the chain, or maybe something just worked its way in there. There's probably enough slack in the chain to warrant replacement, regardless of what you find.

While you're at it, do as I suggested earlier. Loosen the bellhousing bolts to let the transmission separate from the engine. It's only a handful of bolts, and you could eliminate the possibility that the problem is in that area. If that's not it, you've only lost a half hour or less of your time. If that does prove to be it, at least you have a MUCH better idea of where the problem lies.

Instead of guessing, you may as well bite the bullet and do the dirty work, because it doesn't look like it's going to free up just by talking about it.

[bjde0b]

Duckryder - As I said before, I didn't read the whole post. My statement was regarding an engine you are going to rebuild. If you are wanting it to run, then don't do what I said. If you are rebuilding the engine, then pour some drain cleaner in there and let it sit.

[FordTruck]

Tommrrow I'm gonna try and get the rest of the lifters out then if that dosen't get it spinning I'm gonna bite the bullet and pull the motor back out and flip it over and go in from the bottom. Then if I get it pulled I can get my NP435 ready to put in place of the C6.

With the pan removed, you could also get the timing cover off very easily. It's possible you have a timing chain that's loose enough that it's getting ready to jump a tooth, a broken tooth that's wedged in the chain, or maybe something just worked its way in there. There's probably enough slack in the chain to warrant replacement, regardless of what you find.

Me and my dad thought about that but we couldn't see how that could have happend just from sitting but I'm thinking about going ahead and doing that because its got those carbor fiber gears on it now and I'd like to swap in some steel gears.


I'll let you guys know what I find out tommrrow