Motor Plate???

[cdeal28078]

I thought there was a difference between auto and manual so you could have access to the torque converter bolts.
clint

[70_F100]

I thought there was a difference between auto and manual so you could have access to the torque converter bolts.
clint

Not on an FE.

[cdeal28078]

I guess I do think in either small or big block Fords. I have owned 2 FE's but never worked on them much as they were passing through pretty much. I have worked on several FE's helping friends swap engines and trannies but don't remember how the torque converter bolts were accessed. Guess it doesn't matter since it won't help the original poster and that is what we are here for right?
Clint

[Bullitt390]

I guess I do think in either small or big block Fords. I have owned 2 FE's but never worked on them much as they were passing through pretty much. I have worked on several FE's helping friends swap engines and trannies but don't remember how the torque converter bolts were accessed. Guess it doesn't matter since it won't help the original poster and that is what we are here for right?
Clint

Access to the torque convertor is thru the bottom inspection plate/ dust cover.

Josh

[Hawkrod]

dont let hawkrod read this.

I thought the same thing after I typed it, but the info is fairly solid. The real difference comes in the use of the early bellhousings with 153T flywheels and early starters, those engines did not even use a block plate.

Josh

Really? Why would you not want me to see you spreading the correct information? The only problem is you are wrong about the differences when you wrote "The real difference comes in the use of the early bellhousings with 153T flywheels and early starters, those engines did not even use a block plate.". The block plates came out on 63's but the starter and flywheels did not change until 65. The only difference between a 62 and 63 390 bellhousing is the 63 bellhousing is thinner by the thickness of the block plate but the flywheels and starters are the same. BTW, thank you for the referal, I am not sure realize it or not but I am Tom Cherry and I supplied that info to Scott for the CJ forum years ago? Hawkrod

[Hawkrod]

Clint thanks for the reply. I am suspect that the hole that locates the starter is worn. If anyone has the specs I could check it. I assumed it would be easier to find a very good replacement I already swithced it out with one I have here but still ended up with a tore up flywheel ring gear after six months .
Doug

That hole would have to be pretty bad for the starter to move enough to cause a problem. I do not believe it is actually even possible for it to wear as it contacts an aluminum nosecone that would wear long before the steel plate did. The plate is actually not required to locate the starter and as mentioned already, 58-62 engines did not even use them. The starter bolts are adequate to properly index the starter within the tolerances allowed. If you are chewing starters and flywheels I would look to the components themselves. It is very common for people to mix and match early and late starter and flywheels and also many rebuilders use the wrong starter drives as there are a couple for V8 Fords and they interchange but won't last if you have the wrong one. I would first make sure that you have the correct starter (believe it or not several Ford starters will fit on an FE!) and that all three bolts are used to mount it. Make sure that the flywheel has 184 teeth (earlier ones have 153 teeth) and I think the starter drive is a 9 tooth (I didn't have time to verify that and Ford made a 9 and a 10 tooth drive that are directly interchangable). There are basically two different starter drives but many shops just use one to save money. Hawkrod

[fordman]

[Really? Why would you not want me to see you spreading the correct information? Hawkrod

he said this " it didn't matter and only one plate was used from then on, whether Standard or Automatic." you have always said that is wrong. so now we will have a discussion about who is right and who is wrong. and i think you are right. from what you have told us before there are more than one.

[Hawkrod]

[Really? Why would you not want me to see you spreading the correct information? Hawkrod

he said this " it didn't matter and only one plate was used from then on, whether Standard or Automatic." you have always said that is wrong. so now we will have a discussion about who is right and who is wrong. and i think you are right. from what you have told us before there are more than one.

You are very confused. I have never said anything like that. For an FE there are basically two styles of plates, one for engines with threaded oil galley plugs and one for engines with press in galley plugs. It is critical to have the correct one because of clearance if you have threaded plugs but otherwise any or all will work. Standard or automatic makes no difference and starters are also the same for an FE whether standard or automatic. I am not sure what you think you read but I never said anything like you are suggesting and supplied all of the information for the page he is quoting from. Hawkrod

[fordman]

really. basically two? i do know and understand the starter indexing and the tooth counts of flywheel and starter bendix's as well as oil gallery plug clearances and so forth. but he said there is only ONE. 1

[Hawkrod]

really. basically two? i do know and understand the starter indexing and the tooth counts of flywheel and starter bendix's as well as oil gallery plug clearances and so forth. but he said there is only ONE. 1

I think you need to reread what he wrote because he is correct. He did not say there was only one, he wrote:

There was in the beginning for some reason or another until Ford figured out it didn't matter and only one plate was used from then on, whether Standard or Automatic.

Which correct but you wrote:

there are two different plates and starters for automatic and manual transmissions. maybe you have one of the wrong plates or starters.

Which is not correct. On these engines there are basically two plates as I noted but the later plate will work just fine for 67 and older engines (but to use the early plate on a later engine you need to drill holes to clear the oil galley plugs. Also, the starters are the same for stick or auto. The only difference in starters is 64 and older and 65 and newer. It does not matter what trans, the difference is due to the number of teeth on the flywheel and also note that early starters will not work in a late bellhousing even if you have the right flywheel because they are a of a different design and will not physically fit in the bellhousing even though the bolt pattern is the same. Hawkrod

[fordman]

if it is worn it will let the starter move around inside of it when you put the starter in place. if it isnt worn the starter will only be in one place. there are two different plates and starters for automatic and manual transmissions. maybe you have one of the wrong plates or starters.

There was in the beginning for some reason or another until Ford figured out it didn't matter and only one plate was used from then on, whether Standard or Automatic.

C3AZ-7007-B was originally for Standard and automatic transmission applications (1963 to 1967)
C3AZ-7007-D was origially for high performance automatic transmissions (used from 1963 to 1965)
C3AZ-7007-F Last revision and serves ALL FE engines (1968+ and replaced the obsolete -B and -D )

Josh

here i didn't need to rearead it. he states it didn't matter and only one plate was used from then on, whether Standard or Automatic those are his exact words. not my words. and if you are saying he is correct about beijng one plate then why the did you say there are basically 2? then who is wrong him or you? you figure it out yo uare the nit picker. i was only tryign to support your posts from way back.

[Hawkrod]

if it is worn it will let the starter move around inside of it when you put the starter in place. if it isnt worn the starter will only be in one place. there are two different plates and starters for automatic and manual transmissions. maybe you have one of the wrong plates or starters.

There was in the beginning for some reason or another until Ford figured out it didn't matter and only one plate was used from then on, whether Standard or Automatic.

C3AZ-7007-B was originally for Standard and automatic transmission applications (1963 to 1967)
C3AZ-7007-D was origially for high performance automatic transmissions (used from 1963 to 1965)
C3AZ-7007-F Last revision and serves ALL FE engines (1968+ and replaced the obsolete -B and -D )

Josh

here i didn't need to rearead it. he states it didn't matter and only one plate was used from then on, whether Standard or Automatic those are his exact words. not my words.

And those words are correct so what is the issue? He said that earlier there were two plates but then it changed to just one and that is exactly how it happened. He did not say there was only ever one plate. Hawkrod

[Bullitt390]

if it is worn it will let the starter move around inside of it when you put the starter in place. if it isnt worn the starter will only be in one place. there are two different plates and starters for automatic and manual transmissions. maybe you have one of the wrong plates or starters.

There was in the beginning for some reason or another until Ford figured out it didn't matter and only one plate was used from then on, whether Standard or Automatic.

C3AZ-7007-B was originally for Standard and automatic transmission applications (1963 to 1967)
C3AZ-7007-D was origially for high performance automatic transmissions (used from 1963 to 1965)
C3AZ-7007-F Last revision and serves ALL FE engines (1968+ and replaced the obsolete -B and -D )

Josh

here i didn't need to rearead it. he states it didn't matter and only one plate was used from then on, whether Standard or Automatic those are his exact words. not my words. and if you are saying he is correct about beijng one plate then why the did you say there are basically 2? then who is wrong him or you? you figure it out yo uare the nit picker. i was only tryign to support your posts from way back.

Wow, what the heck? Only one plate is used 1968+, why is that so hard to understand?

Note revision "F" hence the "only one plate was used from then on"

Josh

[fordman]

here is what i have been looking at. this is what you told me long ago.

Sorry, that is not correct. Starters and block plates are the same for stick or automatic. The block plate came along in 63, prior to that there was not one and the starter had a rubber seal on it. In 63 Ford started using a block plate and they made two types, one does not have small holes where the oil galley plugs are and one that does (this is the simplified version). In 68 They stopped making the ones without holes as that year they started machining all blocks for screw in oil galley plugs and those sit proud of the block (that is why the plates have holes, so the plugs can stick through!). Use a plate without holes on a block with screw in plugs and you can have all kinds of strange issues such as weird scrapping noises and starter misalignment. When Ford started using block plates they also started machining the transmission bellhousing shorter by the same amount. This means you do not want to use a C2AA bellhousing with a block plate and you do not want to use a C3AA without one! With an automatic designed for a block plate you must use it as leaving it out can cause severe front pump damage is your tolerance stack is against you. Hope this makes sense, Hawkrod

ok so they did after a while start making only one. but you cant use the one without holes on the ones that have the oil gallery plugs that are sticking out. so there are more than one than could be used. on each particle engine depending on what year the engine was made. did i make my position clear? you cant use one without plug holes on a engine with the plugs that stick out. so there is more than one made. everyone seems to want to say that. and that is what i am getting at. so there is more than one. i have seen both with and without the oil holes. i am not saying anything else.

[Bullitt390]

ok so they did after a while start making only one. but you cant use the one without holes on the ones that have the oil gallery plugs that are sticking out. so there are more than one than could be used. on each particle engine depending on what year the engine was made. did i make my position clear? you cant use one without plug holes on a engine with the plugs that stick out. so there is more than one made. everyone seems to want to say that. and that is what i am getting at. so there is more than one. i have seen both with and without the oil holes. i am not saying anything else.

I think if for some reason or another a person ended up with a plate with no holes for the plugs and their engine did in fact have the exposed plugs it would just be a matter of busting out the drill and drilling youself some clearance holes.

I would also tend to think there are far fewer plates out there that are blanked off compared to those that have the plug provisions.

Josh