VIDEO: Is this timing chain slack normal?

[Terry Veiga]

Hello Good People—

The left run of my timing chain has considerably more tension than the right. Is this considered normal due to the chain being under a rotational load or is it actually worn and time to replace it?

And, are the OEM gears with nylon teeth (D0AZ-6256-A4) that much quieter than the metal versions—which I presume the metal has the durability/longevity advantage?

Thanks!

>> Click here to view video <<

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[basketcase0302]

That would be too much slop for my comfort.
Timing chain and gears are cheap enough "insurance" to replace if you're that far into the engine not to.
Is this the 429 in your signature? I thought those engines had steel gears, and I'd never put a plastic set back in an engine, (remember the 300/I-6 always had them).

[Terry Veiga]

Thanks basketcase302

Yes, my truck’s 429/C6 apparently came from an early 70s Galaxie/Torino, so perhaps the cars had the nylon gears to address quietness.

Good point about replacing it anyway since I’m this far into it—heck, that’s exactly why my project has taken this long only because I have been suffering from a really bad case of M.A.W. (Might as well… change this, paint this, refurb this). And the most obvious part is it is 5O-year-old plastic in my valve train!

Btw, I did come across this chain deflection test:
*manual shows up to ½-inch maximum deflection

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[Ohiotinkerer]

I replaced mine in my 360 because when you were cruising at a steady speed you could feel a little hickup every once in a while. Pulled the cover off and found just about what you have. Replaced it with a NOS Cloyes steel set and cleared the problem right up. And also I wouldn't do it with a nylon set - I don't like how they wear and can come apart and I don't really notice and difference in noise between the 2.

[Terry Veiga]

Yeah, I think you guys are making too much sense on the nylon. I mean, I’m starting to sound like a little cupcake over here about a little timing chain noise—on a classic pickup of all things.

Okay, I’ll keep my man card on this one and go with the durability of metal, then turn the radio up if my snowflake ears can’t take the sound of a stock chain over all of the other smells, squeaks, shakes and rattles. Lol

Thanks fellas!

[fastEdsel]

Auto manufacturers are in the business of doing one thing and one thing only, to make money for themselves and shareholders. Use the term "design flaw" and they bury their heads in the sand or run for the hills. Fibre timing gears or nylon gears sell cars because they are quiet. A customer comes along, wants to hear the new engine and usually comments on the engine being so quiet, he cuts the dealer a check and drives off, for a while anyway. But get some miles on those plastic gears, the chain slips a tooth and things can get ugly very quickly like the pistons slapping the valves because the cam is now out of time. When we do our engines we always install new double roller timing chains and gears and they take anything we can throw at them. Sure they make some noise for a short while but they perform very well in the long run. And to answer your first inquiry about the chain being too loose, yes in my opinion change it out.

[Terry Veiga]

Thanks, fastEdsel, which brand(s) do you recommend/avoid for a timing chain on a daily driven, non-towing, stock 429?

[fastEdsel]

We always purchased our double roller timing chains and gears from the same folks who rebored and did the cam bearing install and crankshaft work on our engine blocks. There are several around just make sure the brand says, "Made in USA." Don't cheap out, spend a little extra if you have to. We replaced a camshaft in a 1980ish International 345 V8 of questionable mileage as the cams have been known to go flat in these engines from infrequent oil changes. It got the double roller timing chain upgrade and that 'ol pickup will still pull the lake out from underneath a boat! Good luck with your project, keep us informed.

[fastEdsel]

Oops, my mistake! The International has timing gears but it did get a new cam that has more duration on the intake stroke allowing more air for compression, works great. It was an LT1 350 GM engine and a Chrysler 400 big block that were given the double roller timing chains and gears. No regrets. Sorry for the confusion.

[basketcase0302]

on cheaping out on a timing chain set.

Cloyes is one name brand that comes to mind. But just like my Westinghouse generator, (Westinghouse American namesake right? WRONG! After buying my Westinghouse generator based on the name once I get it it's now in fact made by jackie chan himself and cheap chinese junk!

Reseach the name of the timing set to be 100% it's made in America, (I'd never build any internals of an engine with nothing less).

[Terry Veiga]

Thanks Jeff,

I’ve been looking at chain specs and didn’t know the difference between Standard (OEM), Roller, True Roller, Double Roller, etc. Apparently, the roller-type chains were developed to address the higher stresses resulting from horsepower modifications. I’m curious, did Ford ever make a roller chain for these classic vehicles?

I also read that steel gears are better than iron, and that some gear sets indicate not to reuse the factory crank oil slinger during installation since the added width of the double rollers may cause interference. However, I’ll likely get a chain that allows me to keep using the factory oil slinger to avoid the potential leaks I’ve read about in other forums.

Here’s a Summit article describing the pros/cons of the chain types:
Basic Tech: Standard vs. Roller Timing Chains

Here’s what I’m considering for a timing set for my stock, daily driver:

• Standard OEM or Single True Roller chain
• Steel gears
• Oil slinger compatible
• BRAND: Cloyes, CompCam, Edelbrock, Milodon, etc

[Ohiotinkerer]

on cheaping out on a timing chain set.

Cloyes is one name brand that comes to mind. But just like my Westinghouse generator, (Westinghouse American namesake right? WRONG! After buying my Westinghouse generator based on the name once I get it it's now in fact made by jackie chan himself and cheap chinese junk!

Reseach the name of the timing set to be 100% it's made in America, (I'd never build any internals of an engine with nothing less).

Agree 100% - there is way too much stuff out there that we used to buy that was quality USA made and now the only thing that's American about it is the name - that's why when I replaced my timing set I hunted out a NOS Cloyes set that said made in the USA. I've even went as far to buy up NOS motorcraft tune up kits because 99% of that stuff is total garbage nowdays. It's out there - just gotta hunt and the extra cost is worth it!

[6Delta]

I have a SA Gear set for my Cleveland build. It was reasonable in cost but that was a while ago. This conversation makes me wonder, did Ford make late (1974-76) production engines with the cams retarded to help pass government regulations? I remember doing motors with my Dad in the late 70s and a "new" timing set ran like crap compared to a early one. I seem to recall using offset keys or something because 1 tooth was too much on a new stock type of gear and chain.

Since the FE was pretty much the same until it was discontinued, I wondered if there was a difference in the amount of advance or retard built into the timing set? It has been a while since I thought about a "stock timing" set since my last 2 rebuilds used a performance cam and were dialed in with a degree wheel and adjustable timing set per the manufacture's specs. I do know the gears are made with the "smog" timing predetermined in the small block stock sets but wondered about the 360.

[DisneysPatB]

I put a Cloyes double roller last year when I was working on the engine front. I have a picture in my build gallery, but.....

[Terry Veiga]

6Delta, thanks for mentioning the existence of the less-desirable “smog-oriented” chain set. I came across that topic during my research and noticed many aftermarket crank sprockets come with multiple keyway clockings to address the issue.

Thanks DisneysPatB, Cloyes is actually my top finalist for a reputable manufacturer offering an OEM-style replacement with the added benefit of steel gears. If I was going the double roller route, both Cloyes’ (#9-3522X9) and Ford’s (#M-6268-B429) and (#M-6268-A460) chain sets were impressive.

Cloyes #C-3037 Heavy-Duty link style