302 with 351 firing order???? why?

[BobbyFord]

Ok, I pulled the pistons and the cylinder walls look perfect. The Rod bearings are pretty worn. 75% copper is showing. I found a nick on one of the journals.

Rods are C8OE-A

I am pulling the cam tomorrow and crank tomorrow.

So I am gonna have the crank fixed and go with new pistons, rings, bearings, rods, cam and lifters.

should I go with 9-1 or 10-1 set up?

10:1 is not advisable with iron heads. Ping gets in the way of advanced timing.

[BayStYAt]

Ok, I pulled the pistons and the cylinder walls look perfect. The Rod bearings are pretty worn. 75% copper is showing. I found a nick on one of the journals.

Rods are C8OE-A

I am pulling the cam tomorrow and crank tomorrow.

So I am gonna have the crank fixed and go with new pistons, rings, bearings, rods, cam and lifters.

should I go with 9-1 or 10-1 set up?

10:1 is not advisable with iron heads. Ping gets in the way of advanced timing.

0k. Thanks

[DuckRyder]

I agree 10.0:1 isn’t advisable (says the guy running 10.6:1)...

Keep in mind though that if your heads really are 60cc your compression is going to be different (Lower) from what SpeedPro is quoting @ 54.5cc.

For instance the Sealed Power Hypereutectic Piston H273CP included in your previously mentioned kit is going to give you around 8.25:1 with 60cc, whereas the Speed-Pro Forged Piston L-2482F will give you around 9.4:1 with 60cc.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fem- ... /overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-l2482f/overview/

https://static.summitracing.com/global/ ... l2165f.pdf

[BayStYAt]

I agree 10.0:1 isn’t advisable (says the guy running 10.6:1)...

Keep in mind though that if your heads really are 60cc your compression is going to be different (Lower) from what SpeedPro is quoting @ 54.5cc.

For instance the Sealed Power Hypereutectic Piston H273CP included in your previously mentioned kit is going to give you around 8.25:1 with 60cc, whereas the Speed-Pro Forged Piston L-2482F will give you around 9.4:1 with 60cc.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fem- ... /overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-l2482f/overview/

https://static.summitracing.com/global/ ... l2165f.pdf

hmm, ok. So am I wanting the lower side of compression?

from the research I did on the heads, they are on the better side of flow than most iron heads. Close to GT40 heads.

[DuckRyder]

I agree 10.0:1 isn’t advisable (says the guy running 10.6:1)...

Keep in mind though that if your heads really are 60cc your compression is going to be different (Lower) from what SpeedPro is quoting @ 54.5cc.

For instance the Sealed Power Hypereutectic Piston H273CP included in your previously mentioned kit is going to give you around 8.25:1 with 60cc, whereas the Speed-Pro Forged Piston L-2482F will give you around 9.4:1 with 60cc.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fem- ... /overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-l2482f/overview/

https://static.summitracing.com/global/ ... l2165f.pdf

hmm, ok. So am I wanting the lower side of compression?

from the research I did on the heads, they are on the better side of flow than most iron heads. Close to GT40 heads.

I'd say you want 9-9.5ish static. Your cam choice plays into it though. If it was me I’d use the L2482F pistons for slightly under 9.5. I’d also do the whole “K Kit" for the cam.

[BayStYAt]

I agree 10.0:1 isn’t advisable (says the guy running 10.6:1)...

Keep in mind though that if your heads really are 60cc your compression is going to be different (Lower) from what SpeedPro is quoting @ 54.5cc.

For instance the Sealed Power Hypereutectic Piston H273CP included in your previously mentioned kit is going to give you around 8.25:1 with 60cc, whereas the Speed-Pro Forged Piston L-2482F will give you around 9.4:1 with 60cc.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fem- ... /overview/

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-l2482f/overview/

https://static.summitracing.com/global/ ... l2165f.pdf

hmm, ok. So am I wanting the lower side of compression?

from the research I did on the heads, they are on the better side of flow than most iron heads. Close to GT40 heads.

I'd say you want 9-9.5ish static. Your cam choice plays into it though. If it was me I’d use the L2482F pistons for slightly under 9.5. I’d also do the whole “K Kit" for the cam.

ok, I do plan on the "K" kit. All new. I really want the "thumper" cam.

Any issue with using my rods? I am taking out the cam today. How do I figure what compression my engine is now? By the pistons? the only cast numbers on the pistons is, 302 2V P

[DuckRyder]

The rods I don’t know about, if they are 302 rods I don’t see any reason you can’t use them.

Unless you can find more identifying marks on the pistons (though 302 2V could lead you somewhere) you’ll have to measure everything to calculate the compression ratio. Doesn’t really matter if you’re going to replace the pistons though.

I think I have a book around here that might have some information on Windsors, gimme till evening and I will see what I can come up with on 302 2V pistons. And I’ll try to calculate the dynamic compression of the Thumpr.

Post up the cam info on the cam in it too, just for curiosity sake, it should have markings on either end, and perhaps paint stripes if it is a Ford cam.

[BayStYAt]

The rods I don’t know about, if they are 302 rods I don’t see any reason you can’t use them.

Unless you can find more identifying marks on the pistons (though 302 2V could lead you somewhere) you’ll have to measure everything to calculate the compression ratio. Doesn’t really matter if you’re going to replace the pistons though.

I think I have a book around here that might have some information on Windsors, gimme till evening and I will see what I can come up with on 302 2V pistons. And I’ll try to calculate the dynamic compression of the Thumpr.

Post up the cam info on the cam in it too, just for curiosity sake, it should have markings on either end, and perhaps paint stripes if it is a Ford cam.

awesome, thank you. Ok so cam is out. The only marking I can see is 9F. I tried searching but can't find any info on 20 and 9F

Found the piston number D30E6110BB

[Ranchero50]

D30E-6110-BB So it has a '73 piston in it. Probably standard bore too. I wouldn't bother with new pistons unless you plan to bore it since I'm sure it has wear that a bore mic will show. Maybe a set of rings and bearings. I don't think I'd mess with the crank too much beyond some emory paper. The problem is you'll spend a bunch on machine shop labor and still end up with a stock build. This is the rabbit hole you need to avoid.

Personally, 347 kit with a .030" overbore on the block and a set of Edelbrocks or similar aluminum heads. Not much point in making it sound good if it doesn't perform well too. I'd even be tempted to drop a late model block in to get the better roller cam selection...

Rabbit hole indeed.

[DuckRyder]

I would agree with just re ring it, except that I don’t see how with those large 60cc heads and the obvious dish in those pistons the engine has over like 8:1 compression which is going to be a dismal failure with that cam.

I will say, you should really access what its going to cost to machine and build vs a stroker kit / new heads... If its in as good of shape as it looks in pictures you might get away with minimal machine work and be good to go... In particular, if the heads need valves and seats or anything like that a set of nice aftermarket heads are going to be in the same ballpark...

[BayStYAt]

Ok, first let me say thanks to each one of you that has helped me. It’s invaluable.

Taking the advice of you guys,

Heads- They are in great shape. Absolutely no play in the valve guides. Valves are clean and lapped. I want to change the springs and valve seals. I cleaned the head surfaces. Rockers look good, not sure how to inspect. Push rods look good, not sure how to inspect.

Block- I don’t think the there is much wear in the cylinders. No marks or scratches in the walls. The bearings were showing a good amount of copper. I will get new bearings. I don’t have the tool to change the cam bearings so i may need to get that replaced. I can pressure was the block my self and get it clean. I will get the block looked at and inspected.

Crank- I found some marks in the crank. I had my last crank polished for about $100. I think that’s worth getting fixed.

Rods- I don’t see what the rods would have any issues, except on cap does not slide on and off like all the others. It takes a little effort to get it on and off. Can be done by hand.

Pistons- I don’t see any imperfections in them. So i cant say weather they are ok or not. I can clean them with oven cleaner.

Rings- I will replace.

Cam- I know i kept mentioning the Thumper but that’s only because i like the sound of it. From the responses it may be the wrong choice. I am open to the right cam. I just don’t know what to get. I DO want a good choppy idle. E303 cam? I have no issues getting the correct stall needed for the cam.

Lifters- i will replace

Timing chain- it was worn out. Gear was missing teeth.

Carb- I rebuilt my 2100 but i am interested in a 4 barrel carb to match the Weiand 4 barrel intake.

My original goal was to change the cam and clean and paint the motor. I already have a high horsepower car. This truck was just to build a cruiser that sounds good and is clean. I decided to pull the motor so i could re do the engine bay. Then one thing led to another and the engine is apart. I asked my Mom if she wanted to help me rebuild the motor and she was excited to help.

An issue with the rods and pistons, now that i am considering re using them i did not put them in the correct order. How big of an issue is this?

This is a truck my son and wife can cruise in.

[Ranchero50]

The rods should be numbered, at least they were on the ones I've played with throughout the years. The problem you'll have doing a 1/2 rebuild is any slop / looseness in the bore will allow the pistons to wobble which will affect ring seal. Your bores should have a faint crosshatch in the walls, 30ish degrees if memory serves. If they are marked and some parts aren't, that's the problem. If your heads are in good shape then hopefully the bottom end is too. '73 parts, '69 heads may have been original from the parts shelves for a while but I doubt it four years later. The umbrella seals are a weak link, change them if they aren't completely soft. If I were to spend any money it would be to get the stand machined for late model valve seals. The umbrella's fail and let the valves pump oil into the intake path.

Sounds like you lost cam timing if the nylon covering on the cam sprocket fall apart. Achilles heel of the small block Fords, makes them run like turds. Install a true double roller timing chain and do not skimp on this one part. Try to get one with an multi keyed crank sprocket and install it advanced. All chains wear way too quickly retarding the timing and killing torque which a 302 / truck combo needs.

$100 for a polish, you can do it yourself for a couple bucks and some 320 or finer grit emery paper. Usually I don't bother them too much other than scuff any disassembly dings. You will want a high volume oil pump. Don't need or really want a high pressure one since they are so hard on the cam to dizzy gearset. Pick up a larger oil pump drive shaft too. It's cheap insurance but make sure the dizzy fits with it (BTDT, PITA after it's all together and in the vehicle)

Rod fitment is OK, only resize if you put new bolts in or see a sign of serious impact / heat damage on one, then replace.

I would also get some total seal gapless 2nd compression rings. They have been well worth the extra money over the years just by less blowby.

I'd also go find a truck timing cover. Just be aware that the late model stuff doesn't have the fuel pump boss and some of them had different ports for serpentine belting water pumps (EFI trucks versus cars, another PITA)...

[BobbyFord]

Umbrella seals also eventually wind up locking up the oil pump, causing the pump driveshaft to get twisted in half.
Follow the advice and get the heads modified for the later seals.

[DuckRyder]

How much of a ridge is there at the top of the cylinders?

I think reusing the pistons is a problem if you can’t determine which hole they came out of.

Don’t let us dissuade you on the cam, I’m not a huge fan of Comp, but the cam will do what they say it will do. Let me run some numbers on DCR (probably be tomorrow now). I heard a few at HRPT, they do sound good.

An E303 is a roller and your block doesn’t have provisions for a spider, so you would have to use link bar lifters. I seem to recall these are a bit of a pain on a 302 because you can’t remove/install them with the heads on.

Oh and I agree on the PC seals.

[The Bandit]

How much of a ridge is there at the top of the cylinders?

I think reusing the pistons is a problem if you can’t determine which hole they came out of.

Don’t let us dissuade you on the cam, I’m not a huge fan of Comp, but the cam will do what they say it will do. Let me run some numbers on DCR (probably be tomorrow now. I heard a few at HRPT, they do sound good.

An E303 is a roller and your block doesn’t have provisions for a spider, so you would have to use link bar lifters. I seem to recall these are a bit of a pain on a 302 because you can’t remove/install them with the heads on.

Oh and I agree on the PC seals.

You are correct on not being able to remove the lifters with the link or tye bars on them with the heads on as I have then in mine 302.