How to put a NP205 in a '71F100 (with pictures!)
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How to put a NP205 in a '71F100 (with pictures!)
So recently we blew up the Dana 21 in our '71 F100 4wd. Saw it coming, 390 + 4speed + 35" tires means the Dana 21 was just outmatched.
I looked all over for how to swap in a NP205, and found some useful info, but it was all over the place and I wanted to consolidate it into one spot. Plus I think I found a pretty good solution for a problem that occurs. Anyway, here goes.
The Dana 21 uses a "2wd" NP435. The 2wd NP435 has a square bolt pattern on the back, and uses a gear that that is held on by a nut to the back of the output shaft to interface with the Dana transfer case.
The NP205 uses a "4wd" NP435, which has a trapezoid shaped bolt pattern, and just uses a splined output shaft to go directly into the NP205.
So, in order to do this swap, you'll need
"4wd" Np435
NP205
435 to 205 adapter (married case)
1980 (and later, not sure where it ends, at least until '87 I think) transmission mount
Flat stock steel, at least 6"x8", 1/4" thickness would be fastest.
rear driveshaft (for sure)
front driveshaft (good idea)
All linkage associated with the NP205
NP205 rear bracket
As you can see from the list, the best way to do this is to get a later model donor truck. I found a '77 F250, with long bed and manual trans and took everything from the bell housing back, including the both driveshafts.
The 4wd NP435 will bolt right up to the old bell housing. No need to change (or obtain) a bell or any of the NP435 clutch linkage. Good time to change the clutch if you need it. Ours works fine, and we need the truck back on the road, so I didn't. I may regret this later.
I did have one issue installing the NP435 back in the truck. The NP205 adapter is too tall to have it bolted to the back of the transmission while you're installing it. The adapter hit the floorboard before the transmission was high enough to line up the input shaft with the throwout bearing and clutch. Not sure if this works or not on the later trucks, but it didn't work on mine. So the transmission had to go in by itself. Once the transmission is in place the t-case adapter fits on the back, no problem. You may want to secure the output shaft bearing while you're installing the transmission. Its retained only by the t-case adapter, so without the adapter the output shaft can slide back far enough to separate the input and output shafts and drop out the roller bearings in the back of the input shaft. Ask me how I know! If this happens you have to remove the transmission, fix the gears, and start over. Not fun.
Once the adapter is on, you'll find that the original transmission mount is too tall to fit between the transmission and the cross-member (the NP205 t-case adapter has a larger diameter than the D21 adapter).The mount location is also slightly further back than it was with the 435/D21.On our truck (F100) the cross-member is riveted into the frame, and also locates the trailing arms for the front axle, so its not moving. Looking at the later model cross-member (which I also took), it wouldn't help anyway, its not any deeper. After trying to figure out how to modify the transmission mount, I looked at a bunch of different Ford mounts over the years. Turns out a 1980 (and up, for awhile) F150 mount is exactly the ticket. I bought the mount and made absolutely zero changes to it. Which means if you ever need a new mount, you can just buy one and bolt it in. I then fabricated a flat plate to bolt the mount to, the assembly then bolts to the cross-member just like the original. I used 1/8" plate because its what I had (same thickness and the stock cross-member bracket) and reinforced it since the original mount has structure and is therefore stronger. I doubled up the plate where it bolts to the cross-member, and then tied it all together across the top with a doubled up section for the transmission mount. End result, the plate is 3/8 of an inch tall. If you had 1/4" stock you could just skip all this and just drill the holes, it should be plenty strong and tall enough to get the engine/transmission in the right place. I had 1/8" and a welder, so there you go. I drilled 4 holes to mount it to the original holes on the cross-member, and then 2 more for the new transmission mount. This also takes care of the mount location being further back.
Original Bracket
New fabricated plate
With the plate and the new transmission mount, the transmission/adapter/NP205 now bolt right in.
Taa-Daa!
This is where I'm at now. As for the driveshafts, I'll say this. The "new" front driveshaft is almost exactly the same length as the original. It shouldn't be a problem to use the original if you can't find a complete donor. You may have to get "adapter" u joints though, the kind with 2 different widths. We already have a '74 Dana 44 in our truck, so I don't know for sure all the different yokes that were used.
The rear driveshaft may be an issue. Our '71 F100 is a long bed, and we have a 2 part rear driveshaft, its definitely too long (at least using the standard mounting location for the driveshaft strap). It looks like the "new" driveshaft (also out of a long bed) may be a touch short, the slip joint is pretty much maxed out on a trial fit. But this may have everything to do with the 4" lift on our truck. I like the single rear driveshaft idea, so it may get lengthened. I'll update when we get the driveshafts installed. I also still have to install the rear bracket on the NP205, I got this from the donor truck though so it should be as simple as drilling the frame for the bracket. We will have to reroute the driver's exhaust though I think.
I looked all over for how to swap in a NP205, and found some useful info, but it was all over the place and I wanted to consolidate it into one spot. Plus I think I found a pretty good solution for a problem that occurs. Anyway, here goes.
The Dana 21 uses a "2wd" NP435. The 2wd NP435 has a square bolt pattern on the back, and uses a gear that that is held on by a nut to the back of the output shaft to interface with the Dana transfer case.
The NP205 uses a "4wd" NP435, which has a trapezoid shaped bolt pattern, and just uses a splined output shaft to go directly into the NP205.
So, in order to do this swap, you'll need
"4wd" Np435
NP205
435 to 205 adapter (married case)
1980 (and later, not sure where it ends, at least until '87 I think) transmission mount
Flat stock steel, at least 6"x8", 1/4" thickness would be fastest.
rear driveshaft (for sure)
front driveshaft (good idea)
All linkage associated with the NP205
NP205 rear bracket
As you can see from the list, the best way to do this is to get a later model donor truck. I found a '77 F250, with long bed and manual trans and took everything from the bell housing back, including the both driveshafts.
The 4wd NP435 will bolt right up to the old bell housing. No need to change (or obtain) a bell or any of the NP435 clutch linkage. Good time to change the clutch if you need it. Ours works fine, and we need the truck back on the road, so I didn't. I may regret this later.
I did have one issue installing the NP435 back in the truck. The NP205 adapter is too tall to have it bolted to the back of the transmission while you're installing it. The adapter hit the floorboard before the transmission was high enough to line up the input shaft with the throwout bearing and clutch. Not sure if this works or not on the later trucks, but it didn't work on mine. So the transmission had to go in by itself. Once the transmission is in place the t-case adapter fits on the back, no problem. You may want to secure the output shaft bearing while you're installing the transmission. Its retained only by the t-case adapter, so without the adapter the output shaft can slide back far enough to separate the input and output shafts and drop out the roller bearings in the back of the input shaft. Ask me how I know! If this happens you have to remove the transmission, fix the gears, and start over. Not fun.
Once the adapter is on, you'll find that the original transmission mount is too tall to fit between the transmission and the cross-member (the NP205 t-case adapter has a larger diameter than the D21 adapter).The mount location is also slightly further back than it was with the 435/D21.On our truck (F100) the cross-member is riveted into the frame, and also locates the trailing arms for the front axle, so its not moving. Looking at the later model cross-member (which I also took), it wouldn't help anyway, its not any deeper. After trying to figure out how to modify the transmission mount, I looked at a bunch of different Ford mounts over the years. Turns out a 1980 (and up, for awhile) F150 mount is exactly the ticket. I bought the mount and made absolutely zero changes to it. Which means if you ever need a new mount, you can just buy one and bolt it in. I then fabricated a flat plate to bolt the mount to, the assembly then bolts to the cross-member just like the original. I used 1/8" plate because its what I had (same thickness and the stock cross-member bracket) and reinforced it since the original mount has structure and is therefore stronger. I doubled up the plate where it bolts to the cross-member, and then tied it all together across the top with a doubled up section for the transmission mount. End result, the plate is 3/8 of an inch tall. If you had 1/4" stock you could just skip all this and just drill the holes, it should be plenty strong and tall enough to get the engine/transmission in the right place. I had 1/8" and a welder, so there you go. I drilled 4 holes to mount it to the original holes on the cross-member, and then 2 more for the new transmission mount. This also takes care of the mount location being further back.
Original Bracket
New fabricated plate
With the plate and the new transmission mount, the transmission/adapter/NP205 now bolt right in.
Taa-Daa!
This is where I'm at now. As for the driveshafts, I'll say this. The "new" front driveshaft is almost exactly the same length as the original. It shouldn't be a problem to use the original if you can't find a complete donor. You may have to get "adapter" u joints though, the kind with 2 different widths. We already have a '74 Dana 44 in our truck, so I don't know for sure all the different yokes that were used.
The rear driveshaft may be an issue. Our '71 F100 is a long bed, and we have a 2 part rear driveshaft, its definitely too long (at least using the standard mounting location for the driveshaft strap). It looks like the "new" driveshaft (also out of a long bed) may be a touch short, the slip joint is pretty much maxed out on a trial fit. But this may have everything to do with the 4" lift on our truck. I like the single rear driveshaft idea, so it may get lengthened. I'll update when we get the driveshafts installed. I also still have to install the rear bracket on the NP205, I got this from the donor truck though so it should be as simple as drilling the frame for the bracket. We will have to reroute the driver's exhaust though I think.
Last edited by 71F100-390 on Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to put a NP205 in a '71F100 (with pictures!)
That's some useful information, thank you very much.
- zakt
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Re: How to put a NP205 in a '71F100 (with pictures!)
Im wondering on putting that NP205 on a C6 if the stock trans mount will work then to the adapter? For mine I actually took the crossmember out of a 95 F350 also to possible use and have (3) other trans crossmembers:
1) 68 F250 4x4
2) 69 F250 2wd
3) 72 F350 2wd
So that is what angle, 5 degrees down toward the back??
1) 68 F250 4x4
2) 69 F250 2wd
3) 72 F350 2wd
So that is what angle, 5 degrees down toward the back??
1972 Ford F350 crewcab
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Re: How to put a NP205 in a '71F100 (with pictures!)
Zakt- can't really help you with the C6 info, I've never had one so I can't say how different the t-case to transmission adapter is, if at all. Afraid I can't really say about the crossmembers either. I specifically avoided doing any crossmember swaps because the F100 crossmember also locates the front trailing arms. I will say that the '77 F250 4x4 crossmember I did grab "just in case" wouldn't have helped anyway, it doesn't look any deeper than the '71 F100 crossmember. Unless you've got a major geometry problem, I think fabricating a new transmission mount bracket is going to be much easier than messing with a crossmember swap.zakt wrote:Im wondering on putting that NP205 on a C6 if the stock trans mount will work then to the adapter? For mine I actually took the crossmember out of a 95 F350 also to possible use and have (3) other trans crossmembers:
1) 68 F250 4x4
2) 69 F250 2wd
3) 72 F350 2wd
So that is what angle, 5 degrees down toward the back??
Update on the progress of things-
The lateral transfer case mount is in, one of the more straightforward parts of the swap. I used the entire '77 F250 mount and just drilled the frame rail to accept it, no problems. Rear driveshaft is in too, no alterations needed. The slip joint turned out to have 7 1/2" of travel, it sits at 3 1/4" at road height so we're actually a 1/2" on the plus side of things. I did notice it has a local driveshaft shop sticker on it though, and based on its diameter I don't think its stock either. The exhaust did have to be re-routed, but its not stock to begin with, dual system with one tube running down each frame rail. Long term we might move both pipes over to the passenger side to get them above the crossmember, but for now it works fine with the driver side initially going under the crossmember and then up to the frame rail. Not pretty, but it gets the job done.
Waiting on the centering yoke for the double cardan joint for the front driveshaft. Rock Auto had it for half as much as the local parts shops. Doesn't look like the original front driveshaft would work well either. It's long enough, but I think its going to need that extra joint to get the angles evened out.
- basketcase0302
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Re: How to put a NP205 in a '71F100 (with pictures!)
Keep up the good work!
Jeff
http://www.fordification.com/forum/view ... 22&t=46251
SOLD-71 F-350 dually flatbed, 302 / .030 over V-8 with a "baby"C-6, B & M truckshifter, Dana70/4.11 ratio, intermittent wipers, tilt steering, full LED lighting on the flat bed, and no stereo yet (this way I can hear the rattles to diagnose)! SOLD!
Many Ford bumps / one 76' EB / and several dents through the years.
A lot of "oddball" Ford parts collected from working on them for 34 years now!
2008 Ford Escape 4 x 4
http://www.fordification.com/forum/view ... 22&t=46251
SOLD-71 F-350 dually flatbed, 302 / .030 over V-8 with a "baby"C-6, B & M truckshifter, Dana70/4.11 ratio, intermittent wipers, tilt steering, full LED lighting on the flat bed, and no stereo yet (this way I can hear the rattles to diagnose)! SOLD!
Many Ford bumps / one 76' EB / and several dents through the years.
A lot of "oddball" Ford parts collected from working on them for 34 years now!
2008 Ford Escape 4 x 4
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Re: How to put a NP205 in a '71F100 (with pictures!)
Awesome job 71! I am thinking about the same swap, just need to find the parts.
Is there a list of what trucks came with the NP435 and married 205 T-Case?
Thanks!
Doug
Is there a list of what trucks came with the NP435 and married 205 T-Case?
Thanks!
Doug
Doug F
FALLOUT Grafix
Denver, CO
1967 F100 4wd 4spd
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FALLOUT Grafix
Denver, CO
1967 F100 4wd 4spd
http://www.pinheadlounge.com/Pinecone
https://www.facebook.com/PineconeDesign
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Re: How to put a NP205 in a '71F100 (with pictures!)
Thanks Doug!!!Doug F wrote:Awesome job 71! I am thinking about the same swap, just need to find the parts.
Is there a list of what trucks came with the NP435 and married 205 T-Case?
Thanks!
Doug
I don't have a definitive list. I'm pretty sure that you should be able to find a married NP435/NP205 in '73-'79 F100 through F350's, and the '78-'79 Bronco's. After that ('80+) it looks like the trucks switched to NP208's. Ideally you'd want your donor truck to have the same wheelbase too so you can use the rear driveshaft; our F100 being a long bed limited that range down a bit.
As for an update, I just got the double-cardan centering joint in the mail. Still have to get it hooked up, but the truck has been back on the road without the front driveshaft and everything has been working smoothly so far. Definitely noticed a difference in the rebuilt NP435, guess the old one was getting a little tired. And on that note, if anyone needs a core 2WD NP435, send me a PM.
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Re: How to put a NP205 in a '71F100 (with pictures!)
Awesome information here!
I'm considering swapping the Dana 21 transfer case in my '66 F100 4x4 out for a married NP205... I wonder how similar my install would be?
I'm considering swapping the Dana 21 transfer case in my '66 F100 4x4 out for a married NP205... I wonder how similar my install would be?
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Re: How to put a NP205 in a '71F100 (with pictures!)
Me again... I rolled under my truck and saw pretty much exactly the same setup as you have on your truck. A couple more questions... how tight was the front driveshaft to the tranny cross-member? And is there a second "mount" for the NP205 - to the frame or anything?
Cheers,
Dion
Cheers,
Dion
- shybutpsycho
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Re: How to put a NP205 in a '71F100 (with pictures!)
Where can I find this 1980 t-case mount? I can't find it online anywhere. Can you give me a link or part# please?
- averagef250
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Re: How to put a NP205 in a '71F100 (with pictures!)
Ford has used that same transmission mount for atleast 3 decades under just about every pickup/suv.shybutpsycho wrote:Where can I find this 1980 t-case mount? I can't find it online anywhere. Can you give me a link or part# please?
1970 F-250 4x4 original Willock swivel frame chassis '93 5.9 Cummins/Getrag/NP205/HP60/D70
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Re: How to put a NP205 in a '71F100 (with pictures!)
Good job on the write up..71F100-390 wrote:Thanks Doug!!!Doug F wrote:Awesome job 71! I am thinking about the same swap, just need to find the parts.
Is there a list of what trucks came with the NP435 and married 205 T-Case?
Thanks!
Doug
I don't have a definitive list. I'm pretty sure that you should be able to find a married NP435/NP205 in '73-'79 F100 through F350's, and the '78-'79 Bronco's. After that ('80+) it looks like the trucks switched to NP208's. Ideally you'd want your donor truck to have the same wheelbase too so you can use the rear driveshaft; our F100 being a long bed limited that range down a bit.
As for an update, I just got the double-cardan centering joint in the mail. Still have to get it hooked up, but the truck has been back on the road without the front driveshaft and everything has been working smoothly so far. Definitely noticed a difference in the rebuilt NP435, guess the old one was getting a little tired. And on that note, if anyone needs a core 2WD NP435, send me a PM.
As far as I know.. all F-100's had the D21. F-150's got either the 203 or 205, 203 "usually" only seen behind auto transmissions.. but dont hold me to that
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Re: How to put a NP205 in a '71F100 (with pictures!)
Digging up an old thread, but I have a line on a 78 F150, so I would assume it has the np205 (i'll do more research on that to confirm). Assuming it has the 205, my question is, will ANY np435/205 (minus the bellhousing) bolt up to the "2wd" 435?
The donor truck is a 300/6 and I have a 76 F150 with the Dana 21 and np435. I'm trying to make sure that if I get the 78 and take out the transmission and transfer case, it will bolt right in to my 76. Based on this thread, it would appear so. Can anyone confirm? All in all, this looks like a relatively easy swap.
The donor truck is a 300/6 and I have a 76 F150 with the Dana 21 and np435. I'm trying to make sure that if I get the 78 and take out the transmission and transfer case, it will bolt right in to my 76. Based on this thread, it would appear so. Can anyone confirm? All in all, this looks like a relatively easy swap.
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Re: How to put a NP205 in a '71F100 (with pictures!)
The NP205 uses a "4wd" NP435, which has a trapezoid shaped bolt pattern, and just uses a splined output shaft to go directly into the NP205
how long does the splined output shaft stick out of the "4wd" NP435?
Never mind I have figured out that I have the "2wd" NP435
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/np435.htm
how long does the splined output shaft stick out of the "4wd" NP435?
Never mind I have figured out that I have the "2wd" NP435
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/np435.htm
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Re: How to put a NP205 in a '71F100 (with pictures!)
I have a possible dumb question. Your write up is for a 1/2 ton. Is the mount/adapter information the same for a 3/4 ton? I am about to install a 429 with a 435 and married 205. The body is off so work should be easy but this is my first 4x4 so I am a bit of a noob on this.
Thanks
Allen
Thanks
Allen
Some people are a lot like a slinky. Generally useless, but fun to watch when you push them down the stairs.
1969 F-250 Crew Cab 2WD
1969 F-250 Crew Cab 4X4. Under construction.
1972 F-250 Crew Cab 2WD. Stolen in 2002. Still looking.
1969 F-250 Crew Cab 2WD
1969 F-250 Crew Cab 4X4. Under construction.
1972 F-250 Crew Cab 2WD. Stolen in 2002. Still looking.