67 Automatic vs 69 Automatic? (both FE)

[snake]

Is there any difference between the 1967 G-code 'cruise-o-matic' (with 352 FE) and the 1969 G-code 'automatic' (with 360 FE)??

I was thinking I had seen some discussion on here about this before and that the '69 (C6) is a better option. If that is the case, are there any issues with swapping the '69 automatic for the '67?

Thanks

[PhantomoftheBumpside]

There can be differences between any G-code of even the same year... Ford used the code for the MX-C-o-M, the Select Shift C-o-M (C4 which was based on the MX) and the later C6 (based on the C4).

The C6 is stronger than the C4 in most applications and both are stronger than the MX.

You'll have to crawl under and look at the pan to know which is in a truck. As I said both the MX and C4 were called "Cruise-o-Matic" and all three were code "G" on the warranty tag.

FWIW the 67 is probably a MX and the 69 is probably a C6 especially if it is a heavier optioned truck, expecially a "Special" of any flavor.

I'm always in favor of keeping a restorable 67 anything as original as possible. Anything else, modify as much as you want.

[Hawkrod]

Just a quick note but the C4 was not based on the MX and the C6 was not based on the C4. Those three trans are entirely different designs and pretty much only share the type of oil they use. The MX C.O.M. is an earlier design and the Select Shift C.O.M. is based on that and is usually refered to as the FMX. Both the MX and the FMX were based on an old Borg Warner auto trans design that Ford licensed as the Ford O Matic and later the Cruise O Matic although both of those names eventually became marketing terms and were applied to various transmissions. Unfortunately the marketing department applied those terms to several different trans (A Cruisomatic can be an FX and MX, an FMX, a C4 or a C6 depending on the application) but Ford parts and service was more specific and kept those terms for specific basic design families. The code G on the warantee tag of a light truck only means that the vehicle had the three speed auto trans and you usually also had to know the model year and engine size to use that code to identify which trans it is. Also note that a 67 only came with the MX and the 69 only came with C6. Hawkrod

[PhantomoftheBumpside]

Actually if you want to get specific... The C4 is a Ford grown, aluminum cased version of the Borg Warner developed, iron cased MX line, with a Simpson planetary gear set. The C4 was first used in 1965 F- Trucks and this use continued until 1983. Yes the parts and configuration are different, but the MX is the C4's daddy, even though they don't look like each other. Hell you can find C4's that don't look like each other outside, like the rare ones with Cleveland bellhousings. You can find C4's that don't look like each other inside (IE 8 or 9 bold valve bodies). The C6 is Ford's continued evolution of the Borg Warner line making it a true heavy duty (as opposed to the FMX medium duty). The C6 was first used in 1967 F- Trucks. It shares the Simpson planetary gear set design, only larger. Yes.. the MX (BW) is the C6's granddaddy.

The Simpson planetary gear set configuration was one of the Ford adaptations of the MX transmission and it is named after the Ford engineer that developed the concept.

In conclusion, the G's are all related and a1967 F-Truck can have an (F)MX (common), C4 (rarely) or C6 transmission (more common with late build heavies). The C6 can be found in more different configurations that the C4, with short and long tail shafts, different bellhousings and even a diesel specific version. The C6 continued in F-Trucks until 1996 even though it's "son" the E40D was introduced in 1989. The E40D got some updates in 1998 and they renamed it the 4R100...

The C4 was marketed as the Select Shift Cruise-o-Matic, when it first came out for a couple of years. I don't recall the C6 ever being called a "Cruise-o-Matic"

[Hawkrod]

Actually if you want to get specific... The C4 is a Ford grown, aluminum cased version of the Borg Warner developed, iron cased MX line, with a Simpson planetary gear set. The C4 was first used in 1965 F- Trucks and this use continued until 1983. Yes the parts and configuration are different, but the MX is the C4's daddy, even though they don't look like each other. Hell you can find C4's that don't look like each other outside, like the rare ones with Cleveland bellhousings. You can find C4's that don't look like each other inside (IE 8 or 9 bold valve bodies). The C6 is Ford's continued evolution of the Borg Warner line making it a true heavy duty (as opposed to the FMX medium duty). The C6 was first used in 1967 F- Trucks. It shares the Simpson planetary gear set design, only larger. Yes.. the MX (BW) is the C6's granddaddy.

The Simpson planetary gear set configuration was one of the Ford adaptations of the MX transmission and it is named after the Ford engineer that developed the concept.

In conclusion, the G's are all related and a1967 F-Truck can have an (F)MX (common), C4 (rarely) or C6 transmission (more common with late build heavies). The C6 can be found in more different configurations that the C4, with short and long tail shafts, different bellhousings and even a diesel specific version. The C6 continued in F-Trucks until 1996 even though it's "son" the E40D was introduced in 1989. The E40D got some updates in 1998 and they renamed it the 4R100...

The C4 was marketed as the Select Shift Cruise-o-Matic, when it first came out for a couple of years. I don't recall the C6 ever being called a "Cruise-o-Matic"

I am sorry but you need to do some research as you are very obviously not familiar with the subject and you are very wrong on several points. First and most obvious is no 1967 Ford trucks had a C6 as it was a Job #1 feature for 68 and second no 1967 FE powered trucks ever had a C4 as Ford never used a C4 with an FE. Second, is an odd comment you make about "rare ones with Cleveland bellhousings" as that is the most common bellhousing version for a C4 as it is the same as big 6's, all 1965 and later 289 or 302, all 351W's and all 351C's. The 351M did use a more uncommon bellhousing but rare isn't a word I would associate with those as they were used in large numbers in the mid 1970's intermediate cars. If you don't recall the C6 ever being called a Cruise-O-Matic then it is likely you are not familiar with 1966 and 1967 Ford cars as that is what most of them were called and pretty much only the high performance ones were called anything else those years. Calling the MX the C4's daddy is inaccurate, they are both 3 speed automatic trans but the C4 design was not based on the MX, it used successful features of the MX just as any manufacturer does when it designs a new product. Saying the MX is the basis for the C4 is like saying that the Boss 429 is based on the Flathead V8. The very core of the statement it is true but only because Ford had a V8 program that kept improving not because they improved the Flathead 8's design to become the Boss 9. They both have crankshafts and pistons and bearings etc... but the designs are not the same only the pattern. The two only have common history not common design. I am sorry but the way you are presenting the information is inaccurate and many of your facts are absolutely false. Hawkrod

PS, Simpson designed his gearset after he left Ford and although they did buy rights to it they did not implement it until 1964 so others like Chrysler used it first so are you saying the C4 was based on a Chrysler design?

[mmerlinn]

The C6 can be found in more different configurations that the C4, with short and long tail shafts, different bellhousings and even a diesel specific version.

This is also inaccurate.

There are far more variations of the C4 than the C6. C4s came behind 4 cylinder, 6 cylinder, and 8 cylinder motors that no C6 was ever factory mounted to. C4s came in case fill versions and pan fill (C6 was only case fill).

C4s have over 30 different bell housings (most do not interchange with each other) while C6s had only 6 versions (FE, small block, big block, diesel, and 2 different Lincolns). A 223 CID C4 bell can easily cost upwards of $600, if you can find one, far more than any C6 case (C6s were never mated to the 223). If you want a 223 CID C4 bell, I know where there is one available for $800 plus shipping.

C4s had more varieties of tail housings, both long and short, than the C6 has. C4 tails, except for the normal car version, are much more expensive than any C6 tail (except the Cobra Jet), sometimes commanding upwards of $250 each (Just sold two empty 1970 van tails today at $150 each for example).

C6 had one pump. C4s had 3 major, and several more minor varieties of pumps. Same situation with drums, output shafts, and a few other parts. I have found only 3 major varieties of C6 valve bodies, but have found in excess of 20 major varieties of C4 valve bodies, even a factory full manual valve body.

In short, there are far more varieties of C4s than C6s.

[Donnie]

Everyone is coming up convoluted on these Units : There are major differences between all of the above.................first , before making false statements, thus misleading the masses.........
Let me first state, I AM NOT AN EXPERT ON WHAT FITS WHAT< OR WHAT YEAR THE NAMES WERE CHANGED>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>but I would encourage all included in this thread to study the gear flow and the method used to obtain the gear chosen
THE ONLY THING COMMON BETWEEN THE SIMPSON GEAR TRAIN & THE RAVIGNEAUX GEAR TRAIN IS THAT THE BOTH ARRIVE AT THE SAME CONCLUSION=======which is 3rd gear
How they get there is another study in Automatic transmission design...........Donnie
.......................MAJOR DIFFERENCES.....................

[snake]

Hey guys - this is getting a little more in depth than I originally intended for the question to be and quite frankly too argumentative. (i guess I should have stated my question differently)

I was simply asking if there is an advantage to one over the other to put in my '67 F250 truck(ie better shift pattern, more durable etc) - I have both (have complete drivetrain from both trucks) and if there are any significant difficulties in interchanging one for the other.

[BobbyFord]

Double post

[BobbyFord]

Hey guys - this is getting a little more in depth than I originally intended for the question to be and quite frankly too argumentative. (i guess I should have stated my question differently)

I was simply asking if there is an advantage to one over the other to put in my '67 F250 truck(ie better shift pattern, more durable etc) - I have both (have complete drivetrain from both trucks) and if there are any significant difficulties in interchanging one for the other.

Go with the C6
Not sure if the linkage from the column to the trans is the same, but if not, I'm sure someone here has C6 column linkage.

[snake]

Thanks Bobby

That was my understanding so I've already started down that path but its not too late to change so its still good to hear feedback.

[Whateverman]

durability :in my 20 yrs of junkyard raiding i've run across tons of dead fmx's and only a few dead c6's - the FE truck C6's being the least likely to be found dead (the ones without a tailshaft-the only dead one i've ever run across was killed by coolant getting into the tranny fluid)

[ANGELO1]

A C6 THAT BOLTS TO AN FE IS A C6 THAT BOLTS TO AN FE, & A C6 IS A REALLY STRONG TRANS, PERIOD.