Trans. dowel pin hole repaired incorrectly

[FordHead]

I recently purchased a rebuilt C6 tranny from a shop here in OKC and when I viewed it at the shop I noticed that one of the dog ears was busted off. He said their welder would fix that for me. Well as it turned out it wasn't a bolt hole but rather a dowel pin hole. Well I see now he somehow didn't fabricate the dowel pin hole in exactly the right spot and so having stabbed and re-stabbed the tranny numerous times and not having clearance through the bolt holes to bolt it to the block I am certain of this. I am tired of arguing with the guy (he thinks there's no way his welder messed up. I can see that I can shave off the hole about 3/8 of an inch up and to the right and get it to line up w/the bolt holes of the block. But I have read bukus of posts about how perfect this alignment has to be (like within .010") is this just BS. My wifes friends husband says he's bolted up trannys that had a missing dowel pin without even replacing the pin and had no problem. See photo

[FordHead]

Oops photo didn't post Hmmm.

comparitve view.JPG

[averagef250]

What a mess. The trans shop blatantly lied to you. Take that thing back and get all your money back plus some for all you trouble.

.010" is off is too far off for transmission alignment pins/dowels. A welder isn't equipped to make a repair like that. A repair like that to be done right will cost significantly more than a new transmission case or a whole nuther transmission.

The alignment pins in transmissions are in precise alignment with the crankshaft centerline, not just the other pin. To make a repair like this you have to have a CMM or an accurate machine tool with a DRO or CNC with a postion display. Then you need a good one of the bad housing or an engine block to take good measurements from or a factory print of the dimensions. Once you've made the weld repair and have proper dimensions you can set the housing up a on a mill/HBM, dial everything in and machine the new pin hole. The hole should bored to final size .001" larger than the size of the pin. The holes in the block are .0005 undersize.

The bellhousing bolt holes are a different story. They don't really matter as long as the bolts go in.

[FordHead]

Even on a 40yr old motor/transmission set up I mean .010" is the thickness of a sheet of paper I would imagine easily that with a 40yr old motor and bellhousing of approx.the same age that just the fact that both componenets have been through God knows what as far as heating up and cooling down perhaps several hundred thousand times that the amount of metal molecules that have been dispaced over the years would amount to far more of a dimensional alteration than this .010". But either way He will not give me my money back so I'm stuck. Furthermore my wife and I went into hock to come up with the $900.00 to get this thing and it has taken us months to obtain the $. This is (was) my daily driver I need the truck to get to and from work. We just moved to OKC and I need a job badly but my truck needs fixed. Aaargh what a mess!

[averagef250]

I'm sorry, I thought you wanted a real answer, not a fairy tail.

Let me put my farmer hat on.....

Yeah, that alignment dowel's just there for looks. Your bro-in-law is right on. you should just eyeball that dowel pin and use a tape measure from harbor freight to doublecheck.

Seriously- Why the hell do you think the dowel pins are there??? There's .010" clearance around the bolt holes so why in the hell didn't the engineers just figure that was a good enough window to get 'er close and call it good?

Some automotive stuff is a little sketchy, but engine-trans alignment is pretty important. I manufacture parts that have to fit automotive bellhousings and there's a couple thou tolerance on dowel pin location or the parts don't fit right. There's a little leeway in starter pinion location and bolt location, but the dowel pin to crankshaft centerline numbers need to be on the money or you have a big mess on your hands. Converter bushings wear, flexplates crack, seals leak, vibrations and short parts life.

[knightfire83]

Sorry to hear of your problem, frustrating to be sure.

Perhaps someone can post up a picture of their transmission in the same area for comparison. What engine are you bolting to?

The Better Business Bureau may be an option for you or small claims court.

If nothing else, might want to check into getting the hole welded closed at a real transmission shop and then re-drilled.

[PhantomoftheBumpside]

If he says the trans is right he should have no problems giving you your money back so he can sell it to the next guy.

This isn't the shop advertising $597 trans repairs is it?

[FordHead]

It's bolting to a 390. I have contacted the BBB and started the complaint process already. But this takes weeks to resolve and I have already been 5months without my truck running saving money for this repair. I am just about to have a mental breakdown.

[FordHead]

I'm sorry, I thought you wanted a real answer, not a fairy tail.

Let me put my farmer hat on.....

Yeah, that alignment dowel's just there for looks. Your bro-in-law is right on. you should just eyeball that dowel pin and use a tape measure from harbor freight to doublecheck.

Seriously- Why the hell do you think the dowel pins are there??? There's .010" clearance around the bolt holes so why in the hell didn't the engineers just figure that was a good enough window to get 'er close and call it good?

Some automotive stuff is a little sketchy, but engine-trans alignment is pretty important. I manufacture parts that have to fit automotive bellhousings and there's a couple thou tolerance on dowel pin location or the parts don't fit right. There's a little leeway in starter pinion location and bolt location, but the dowel pin to crankshaft centerline numbers need to be on the money or you have a big mess on your hands. Converter bushings wear, flexplates crack, seals leak, vibrations and short parts life.

I wasn't trying to be a smarta** Its just that I am desperate right now for a fix to this problem. My wife and I just dropped almost a thousand dollars that we didn't really have to spend and now are going to broke for weeks to come and this stupid shop owner won't take this tranny back and return the money.

[mrollings53]

If you want I can take my tranny case to work and measure the pin locations. I run CNC machines and have a CMM I could probably use to get you down to .0001" location. You can then take that to a competent welder/ machine shop and get your case properly repaired.

[basketcase0302]

Fordhead,
Just so you know this...AverageF250 has worked on them for a living for many years. I'd also follow the BBB route and also advise going down to your courthouse and seek legal counsel to file a claim against the shop. Call around and find another shop locally that can back up what you've read here, that will give you a written estimate on the "proper" repairs (which I see as an entire different tranny case). Pretty evident the shop's trying to "pawn off" what they've had in a junk pile for many years.
Did you give them a transmission to rebuild or was this a purchase without submitting a core to them?
I and many more here know all to well how living from week-to-week is.
If they have gone this far...Lord only know how much work they actually did to the inside of the transmission? I wouldn't even think about accepting it from them at this point!

[averagef250]

No kidding on what Jeff said.

I really hate automatics, but their existence isn't going to change. I've been in this situation, need an auto and have virtually no money. Maybe it's just luck, but twice I found really cheap used trannies for under $50 that ended up working good enough to last awhile.

One was a C6 for $25 and it came with a rebuild kit that I never used. I flogged that tranny and it held fine until the truck went to the crusher. The other was a 1984 Buick TH200- What are the odds of finding one of those?

If you're broke and need a 390 C6 put a wanted ad, or several up on your local craigslist. Never know what you'll find, might get one free to just get it out of someones way.

Better yet put a 4 speed in it.

[PhantomoftheBumpside]

So who is close enough to OKC to help out FordHead?

My 'pile o spares' is too far away and too different (got NP-435,E4OD&4R70W) to be of much help, but I am sure someone closer should have a spare trans or even a spare vehicle that he could use till he can get this issue resolved.

If not, maybe we could all pitch in a couple of bucks (you got PayPal FH?) to help him find a used trans at a local yard?

http://www.superpages.com/yellowpages/C ... homa+City/
http://www.yellowpages.com/oklahoma-cit ... age-yards#

[averagef250]

http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/pts/2780033876.html

There's one for $200 drive before you buy in OKC.

[mrollings53]

If you paid with a credit card you can call the card company up and have them put a stop on the payment. Tell them what's going on, and they should be able to help.