Kickdown and shifting questions
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Kickdown and shifting questions
Hey guys! Haven't posted a lot on here about my project, so heres the situation: I have a '70 F100 with a 302/c4. The kicker is, the engine and trans are from a '78 T-bird. Needless to say, this provides me with many 'learning opportunities'
I have located a kickdown linkage from another Ford truck with a 302 (might have come off a dent, can't remember now), and I need help with how to install it/have it in the right position. The first issue I have is it is about 1 1/2" too long, but that's okay because the trans end is rusted out and I will need to cut that off and add an end from another one I have.
Question 1: How do I get my kickdown to go from sitting like this:
To like the one here:
I am referring to how far into the throttle you need to go until the kickdown is actuated. Also, is the shape of the kickdown in the second photo correct? (how it travels about 2" above throttle assembly?)
I am thinking that if the kickdown is the correct length, then the trans will only allow it to sit in one position. BUT, because I am making the kickdown, I don't know what that position is. The shop manual says 'the downshift systems should come in when the accelerator is pressed through detent, and not before detent'. Is detent when you start actuating the throttle, and at one point about 2/3 through the motion it gets harder to move? I just want to make sure I make the correct length kickdown.
Question 2: I think my shifting bracket on the c4 is different than on a '70 c4 --> mine is on top, whereas in the manual it looks like the '70 bracket is below the pivoting point. This is also providing me with some learning experiences as it can not be shifted with a straight rod. I have made a bent shifting linkage, but the motion of going through all gears at the transmission only turns the steering column part about half way, so when it's in 1 they match up, and when the trans is in park, the steering column says it is between drive and neutral.
Here's a pic of the trans (and rusted end of kickdown):
Any ideas how to make a shifting linkage for that trans?
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks
Brian
I have located a kickdown linkage from another Ford truck with a 302 (might have come off a dent, can't remember now), and I need help with how to install it/have it in the right position. The first issue I have is it is about 1 1/2" too long, but that's okay because the trans end is rusted out and I will need to cut that off and add an end from another one I have.
Question 1: How do I get my kickdown to go from sitting like this:
To like the one here:
I am referring to how far into the throttle you need to go until the kickdown is actuated. Also, is the shape of the kickdown in the second photo correct? (how it travels about 2" above throttle assembly?)
I am thinking that if the kickdown is the correct length, then the trans will only allow it to sit in one position. BUT, because I am making the kickdown, I don't know what that position is. The shop manual says 'the downshift systems should come in when the accelerator is pressed through detent, and not before detent'. Is detent when you start actuating the throttle, and at one point about 2/3 through the motion it gets harder to move? I just want to make sure I make the correct length kickdown.
Question 2: I think my shifting bracket on the c4 is different than on a '70 c4 --> mine is on top, whereas in the manual it looks like the '70 bracket is below the pivoting point. This is also providing me with some learning experiences as it can not be shifted with a straight rod. I have made a bent shifting linkage, but the motion of going through all gears at the transmission only turns the steering column part about half way, so when it's in 1 they match up, and when the trans is in park, the steering column says it is between drive and neutral.
Here's a pic of the trans (and rusted end of kickdown):
Any ideas how to make a shifting linkage for that trans?
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks
Brian
- sargentrs
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Re: Kickdown and shifting questions
Don't know much about it, I'm hoping to learn from your post. I've got a C4 that came in the donor truck for my build. The casting number on the front pump housing implies that it's from a '76 or up and pan fill probably says it's from a truck. Anyway, the linkage on mine looks different than yours. The donor truck didn't have a kickdown linkage on it so I can't help you there. Here's a pic of my linkage.
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Randy
1970 F100 Sport Custom Limited LWB, 302cid, 3 on the tree. NO A/C, NO P/S, NO P/B. Currently in 1000 pcs while rebuilding. Project thread: http://www.fordification.com/forum/view ... 22&t=59995 Plan: 351w, C4, LSD, pwr front disc, p/s, a/c, bucket seats, new interior and paint.
1987 F-150 XLT Lariat, 5.0/C6 auto.
1970 F100 Sport Custom Limited LWB, 302cid, 3 on the tree. NO A/C, NO P/S, NO P/B. Currently in 1000 pcs while rebuilding. Project thread: http://www.fordification.com/forum/view ... 22&t=59995 Plan: 351w, C4, LSD, pwr front disc, p/s, a/c, bucket seats, new interior and paint.
1987 F-150 XLT Lariat, 5.0/C6 auto.
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Re: Kickdown and shifting questions
When you are at WOT ,wide open throttle, the kickdown rod should have the lever on the trans depressed...in other words, there is no action on the kickdown rod until you are at almost WOT.. there should be a fine screw adjustment at the carb end, so you can adjust it.
Also be careful that the rod does not rub ANYTHING on the way to the tranny..Donnie
Also be careful that the rod does not rub ANYTHING on the way to the tranny..Donnie
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Re: Kickdown and shifting questions
Your lower photo has the correct carb linkage arm for the C4...The arm just sits there until you are at almost wide open, If you notice the bend in the carb arm & it's relationship to the fine trim screw on the kick down rod, this will all make sense. No ????...........Donnie
The engine in the other photo had what trans behind it??
The engine in the other photo had what trans behind it??
- basketcase0302
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Re: Kickdown and shifting questions
The "selector shaft" in the below picture has the means to hook up the linkage. Not 100% if I understand your question correctly or not. But all you'd need is the correct linkage rod to go from your steering column to this point. A plastic "grommet" goes into the selector shaft in this picture-and then the linkage slides into it.Any ideas how to make a shifting linkage for that trans?
You do have an automatic steering column don't you? If not you can "throw" in a "ghetto shifter" (as some folks here call them) / I mean floor shifter in the truck fairly easily that will hook up to the below mentioned linkage.
I like my "ghetto shifter".
Jeff
http://www.fordification.com/forum/view ... 22&t=46251
SOLD-71 F-350 dually flatbed, 302 / .030 over V-8 with a "baby"C-6, B & M truckshifter, Dana70/4.11 ratio, intermittent wipers, tilt steering, full LED lighting on the flat bed, and no stereo yet (this way I can hear the rattles to diagnose)! SOLD!
Many Ford bumps / one 76' EB / and several dents through the years.
A lot of "oddball" Ford parts collected from working on them for 34 years now!
2008 Ford Escape 4 x 4
http://www.fordification.com/forum/view ... 22&t=46251
SOLD-71 F-350 dually flatbed, 302 / .030 over V-8 with a "baby"C-6, B & M truckshifter, Dana70/4.11 ratio, intermittent wipers, tilt steering, full LED lighting on the flat bed, and no stereo yet (this way I can hear the rattles to diagnose)! SOLD!
Many Ford bumps / one 76' EB / and several dents through the years.
A lot of "oddball" Ford parts collected from working on them for 34 years now!
2008 Ford Escape 4 x 4
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Re: Kickdown and shifting questions
I do have an auto steering column, the problem is the c4 seems to have changed --> should be a straight line from column to shifting lever on trans, but it's not. You can kinda see what I am saying in this pic:basketcase0302 wrote:The "selector shaft" in the below picture has the means to hook up the linkage. Not 100% if I understand your question correctly or not. But all you'd need is the correct linkage rod to go from your steering column to this point. A plastic "grommet" goes into the selector shaft in this picture-and then the linkage slides into it.Any ideas how to make a shifting linkage for that trans?
You do have an automatic steering column don't you? If not you can "throw" in a "ghetto shifter" (as some folks here call them) / I mean floor shifter in the truck fairly easily that will hook up to the below mentioned linkage.
So my issue is the '70 trans should have the selector lever on trans below where it pivots, mine is above. This makes me have to put a 120 degree bend in the shifting linkage (and it doesn't follow the path that these trucks were supposed to because of the different trans). So as far as I can tell, a correct shifting rod doesn't exist for this thing
Yeah I'm thinking of a 'ghetto shifter', I like that look in old trucks. Or maybe I'll just get fed up and go grab an entire 3spd manual setup because they're fun.
- basketcase0302
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Re: Kickdown and shifting questions
I wouldn't throw in the towel on your C-4 just yet, (after two back surgeries-I love our automatics). It's really rattling my brain as I can't remember seeing a C-4 selector shaft with the bracket for the linkage on top like that? Any chance it's been torn into, was it or has it been rebuilt?
Here's a universal type linkage:
http://www.transmissioncenter.com/columnarm_ford.jpg
Most B & M shifters require you to "butcher" (did I just say that out loud LOL!) the selector shaft bracket similar to the above picture.
Here's a universal type linkage:
http://www.transmissioncenter.com/columnarm_ford.jpg
Most B & M shifters require you to "butcher" (did I just say that out loud LOL!) the selector shaft bracket similar to the above picture.
Jeff
http://www.fordification.com/forum/view ... 22&t=46251
SOLD-71 F-350 dually flatbed, 302 / .030 over V-8 with a "baby"C-6, B & M truckshifter, Dana70/4.11 ratio, intermittent wipers, tilt steering, full LED lighting on the flat bed, and no stereo yet (this way I can hear the rattles to diagnose)! SOLD!
Many Ford bumps / one 76' EB / and several dents through the years.
A lot of "oddball" Ford parts collected from working on them for 34 years now!
2008 Ford Escape 4 x 4
http://www.fordification.com/forum/view ... 22&t=46251
SOLD-71 F-350 dually flatbed, 302 / .030 over V-8 with a "baby"C-6, B & M truckshifter, Dana70/4.11 ratio, intermittent wipers, tilt steering, full LED lighting on the flat bed, and no stereo yet (this way I can hear the rattles to diagnose)! SOLD!
Many Ford bumps / one 76' EB / and several dents through the years.
A lot of "oddball" Ford parts collected from working on them for 34 years now!
2008 Ford Escape 4 x 4
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Re: Kickdown and shifting questions
i'm not running a kickdown rod on my truck,the vaccuum modulator usually forces kickdowns for me (usually)
i "lost" the shift rod for my truck when i was swapping in my 5.0& c4 ( it got tossed by the old lady during a surprise garage clean up) so i ended up fabbing up one out of some threaded rod
its pretty nasty looking because i'm planning on making a decent looking one to replace it ,i'll get some pics of the current nasty one and some measurements next week if you want
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i "lost" the shift rod for my truck when i was swapping in my 5.0& c4 ( it got tossed by the old lady during a surprise garage clean up) so i ended up fabbing up one out of some threaded rod
its pretty nasty looking because i'm planning on making a decent looking one to replace it ,i'll get some pics of the current nasty one and some measurements next week if you want
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- still got my first first car 20+yrs later : 69 f100 sorta kinda pretending its a Mercury M100 w/a 70 f350 sport custom cab (factory buckets) 67 grille with 69 ranger cooneyes 68 merc box and hood,some supercool fiberglass fenders i scored way back when, 76 f150 disc brake frontend..currently running a 90 5.0HO 4bbl/c4 auto & 3.50 posi...originally a 360/c6 f100 Ranger with dealer added towpack (incl. kelsey hays trailer brake),boxside toolbox,behind the seat stowage & belly tank...only original parts left on 'er are the frame,rear end,rear springs,and rear bumper...
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Re: Kickdown and shifting questions
Only thing I can think of as to why it is on top is this came out of a car from '78, not a truck from '70. I dont know how much is different, but I can tell you the tail housing on the trans is about 2" longer, so it is a different c4....basketcase0302 wrote:It's really rattling my brain as I can't remember seeing a C-4 selector shaft with the bracket for the linkage on top like that?
Here is a pic of another c4 like mine, except something funny is happening with this guy's kickdown lever.
Our trucks are supposed to have a straight shifting rod, right? With a C4, I mean.
Last night I had an idea, so was in the garage till 11 or so (didn't want to forget the idea). I'll post pics of what I did after I get off my lazy a$$ and go finish the kickdown... But I think I have made one that will work. Another fun part about this is I don't have the right bellcrank for my throttle, so I've modified one and made a bracket to fit it, got that working last night too. Updates to come later today (hopefully )
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Re: Kickdown and shifting questions
I'll let you know if I can't get this one figured out, then yeah it may help to see what someone else has done. Thanks!Whateverman wrote:,i'll get some pics of the current nasty one and some measurements next week if you want
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Re: Kickdown and shifting questions
The 2 bolts in the bell housing seem to indicate that this trans has a floor/ cable shift, NO???
That is why the shift lever is up... going from a guess?????????????unsure , Donnie
That is why the shift lever is up... going from a guess?????????????unsure , Donnie
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Re: Kickdown and shifting questions
Yeah, it was from a car... Soooo many things to change when going from a car to a truck... I'll get pics up tomorrow of what I did. First I'll try it a bunch of times to make sure it works
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Re: Kickdown and shifting questions
So here's the progress. Because my shifting lever is on the top of the pivot point (on the trans), I needed to make it on the bottom so the direction matches up with the column shifter.
Here it is in context (final product will not be retained by vice grip
So basically I moved the point where the shifting rod meets the trans linkage to the other side of the pivot (as it should be in a truck) so now I have a straight-ish rod. Everything works beautifully, I put threads on the column end of the rod like original so it is adjustable. When I get the trans shifting bracket where I want it, I will add some walls to kinda enclose the current linkage so that if the big bolt comes loose it will still shift (I will try to think of a way to say that more clearly)
For the kickdown, I started out with this old rusty one:
It wasn't the right shape so I filled it with sand and formed it. Filling it with sand keeps the tube from crimping, making tube bending really easy...
Once I had the right shape, it was too short so I took a bit of another one I had
Got it to the right length and joined the two, and there you go! Just need some paint... and maybe a bit more grinding...
Now I can finally get back to making it look like a whole truck again...
*EDIT* This pic shows more clearly what I was doing to the shifting linkages/levers.
Here it is in context (final product will not be retained by vice grip
So basically I moved the point where the shifting rod meets the trans linkage to the other side of the pivot (as it should be in a truck) so now I have a straight-ish rod. Everything works beautifully, I put threads on the column end of the rod like original so it is adjustable. When I get the trans shifting bracket where I want it, I will add some walls to kinda enclose the current linkage so that if the big bolt comes loose it will still shift (I will try to think of a way to say that more clearly)
For the kickdown, I started out with this old rusty one:
It wasn't the right shape so I filled it with sand and formed it. Filling it with sand keeps the tube from crimping, making tube bending really easy...
Once I had the right shape, it was too short so I took a bit of another one I had
Got it to the right length and joined the two, and there you go! Just need some paint... and maybe a bit more grinding...
Now I can finally get back to making it look like a whole truck again...
*EDIT* This pic shows more clearly what I was doing to the shifting linkages/levers.
Last edited by Canadian Ford Eh on Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Kickdown and shifting questions
nice work!
- still got my first first car 20+yrs later : 69 f100 sorta kinda pretending its a Mercury M100 w/a 70 f350 sport custom cab (factory buckets) 67 grille with 69 ranger cooneyes 68 merc box and hood,some supercool fiberglass fenders i scored way back when, 76 f150 disc brake frontend..currently running a 90 5.0HO 4bbl/c4 auto & 3.50 posi...originally a 360/c6 f100 Ranger with dealer added towpack (incl. kelsey hays trailer brake),boxside toolbox,behind the seat stowage & belly tank...only original parts left on 'er are the frame,rear end,rear springs,and rear bumper...
- fbomb100
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Re: Kickdown and shifting questions
likes like a clean truck you have