crown vic front suspension into 67 F100 1

[dad23boys]

Well here is the latest with my truck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKkJZUoFIDY

[whiteblur]

made me smile when you said you got that truck from cleveland, tn since I live there. I knew cleveland was good for something

[dad23boys]

Sorry it's been so long since I've done an update but had a lot on my plate. But here is one for now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIXWP-InXGs

[dad23boys]

Well the cab swap has begun!

http://youtu.be/4iUIBiSCltA

[elgemcdlf]

Just found someone was talking trash about the truck project me and my students have been working on on a different Ford truck web site. Here is what he said and my response.

Project bad, yes you will be fine, the guy on the other forum you speak of is exactly the kind of person i am talking about, they have no clue they just like to hear themselves talk.

Yes you can put a block in to raise the suspension.


********** pay attention here PLEASE***************

DO NOT put an open ended thin wall peice of tubing between the frame and crossmember! I saw a guy on youtube and another ford website do this that is teaching kids in a shop class and its horribly wrong and dangerous!


The proper way to put a "lift block" in would be to make it an extension of the frame by welding it in then boxing the ends of the extra tube and grafting the ends into the frame so its all like one peice. I would also use a 3/16" or 1/4" wall tube for added strength. Also remember use the strongest bolt you can when going that long.

I AM THAT SHOP TEACHER that you are referring to. I highly upset that you are saying I am teaching my students something dangerous. I take pride in my program and would never do anything to put my students in danger. My truck may not look as pretty as yours but the spacers I used are fine and the boxing in you are referring to do very little for strength although it does look better. Everybody can check out my youtube video and judge for yourself. This will be the last time I will visit this site it this is the way people on this site talk slandering one’s character and job. The thin wall tubing your are referring to is 5/16" and much thicker than the original frame. Wish I didn't let things like this get me upset like this I mean I was getting grease under my fingernails when this guy was in diapers.
It sure hurts your feelings when someone you have never meet talks bad about some thing you have done. And they do it all over the net. I know I am a big boy and I should take it like a man.

While I am not the person that made the original post I too question the integrity of what you are doing. Bolted in bits and pieces. Since you pulled the IFS you know how Ford had it mounted. Had you at least ran the bolts all the way through as Ford had it I would feel a bit better. I would not have bolted the spacers to the frame rail. They would have been welded with plates running from the top of the rail to the bottom of the spacer both inside and outside tieing it all together as a single piece. To each his own, I would be afraid to drive that truck under any stress at all. In your particular case boxing the rail would do worlds of good for you. You have created a situation where the suspension that was designed to be mounted to the entire frame is now mounted to only the bottom of the rail. Boxing the rail would help to keep that lower portion of the C channel from folding upward. Making the spacer thinker than the original frame does nothing. You are only as strong as your weakest link. There is nothing tieing the main mounting of the suspension to the top of the rail as Ford designed it to be.

In effect you have weakened the mount of the suspension by at least 50% (probably more like 60%-70%). At best, which is not good by any means, the shock tower supports, which are not designed as main suspension supports, have now become the tie to the upper portion of the frame. If the lower portion of your rail should roll either in or out you will snap off the top of the shock tower. It is only aluminum. Talk about one nasty wreck. I hope it all works out well and can stand the test of time.

Back to boxing frames for a moment. The CV IFS was designed to be used with a "rigid" frame. Truck (especially old truck frames) are designed to twist. This is built in to avoid frame damage from a loaded situation when driving. It allows the frame to absorb shock without damage. Everything is designed to work together (suspension & frame). Car suspensions are designed with rigid frames. Frames that for the most part do not twist. Suspension is designed accordingly. Boxing the frame of an older truck greatly reduces the twist and places road shock onto the coil springs as intended by Ford. Your mounting design needs the twist removed more than any install I have seen. The frame twist is going to work against your mount bolts and limited mounting surface in relation to stress. A truck frame can have 2 1/2"+ worth of twist. Boxing will drop that down to 3/8" over the length of the frame. The number I reference above is for a short truck. Your LWB will be greater.

I watched your video of driving down the road. Was it your video maker or the truck? It looks like it is wandering all over the road. A moving video camera could easily create the same effect when viewing.

[dad23boys]

********** *********

[elgemcdlf]

I will add a few things to my original post. I agree Youtube video is different than seeing in person. Even different than detailed pics. You are still mounting your crossmember with 4 main bolts no matter how you slice it. Makes no difference how much thicker your spacer is than the frame rail. You are only as strong as your weakest link. So your extra thickness is still at the mercy of the weaker frame rail. Another area that would really concern me is the shock tower support. In the Crown Vic it is roughly 5/8" of an inch above the rail with the crossmember mounted flush. You have added whatever down below but you did not reengineer your upper rail to put the upper support in the same configuration. I just picture Ford engineers using really high dollar software stress testing the shock towers locating that specific point and angle of attachment to the frame (they could have just as easily made it mount flush to the top of the rail).

You added washers spacing it even further uphill. You have the support going in the same direction as the force being exerted by the springs. It would seem to me your design is setup to help the spring break the top of the shock tower off. I don't see Ford adding that piece and even changing the material just because they thought it looked cool. Why washers when you built an actual spacer below? When you get a bare frame set it up on 4 jackstands. Pick it up from 1 corner and measure how high you go before another corner comes off the jackstand. This will illustrate frame twist in an older truck.

Good luck with it. Makes no real difference to me. It's your truck, do as you desire. Scares me though. The only thing I see helping you is not cutting out the ends of the crossmember. In a small way adding support to the rail in that area. It does concern me though that you are teaching children this is an acceptable frame modification. Ever see a 4x4 lose an axle? Was it sitting up on "stilts"? Really tall blocks between the spring and the axle.

[dad23boys]

[dad23boys]

[elgemcdlf]

You are not reading what I post. It appears you have yourself all wound up because someone doesn't like the way it is done. Ever hear you can't please all of the people all of the time? Are you attempting to say that because you added a piece under the frame that is thicker walled than the rail that it somehow now has made the rail stronger? Personally if I was bent on putting the CV IFS in and maintaining original ride height I would have mounted the IFS as designed to the truck chassis this way I maintain suspension mounting geometry. I would have built the rear lower control arm mount to incorporate the change in frame height. Doing it this way would avoid major rework for the cab mounts as we all know the lower control arm rear mount lines up right in front of. Clipped the rails and moved the entire unit down (raising the truck) just like the way the slammed guys do the rear suspensions along with boxing at least from the firewall forward.

That is how I would do it if I was going to do it. In reality if I wanted to maintain original height while upgrading the suspension I would clip a late model pickup and graft it to the old truck frame. If I was going to go through all the work of C'ing the frame I would build the entire suspension custom from scratch. That's me not you.

[dad23boys]

[elgemcdlf]

"...Yes I get it you THINK because I didn't weld a plate to join the frame rail to the spacers it puts too much stress on the shock towers..."

Wrong. The plates are to tie the spacer to the upper portion of the frame thus making it a far stronger and more secure installation. Ford installed it utilizing both the top and bottom of the rail. You in present form are utilizing only the bottom of the rail. Makes no difference how strong the spacer is. It is mounted to only the bottom side of a C channel. Leaving the ends of the crossmember in the rail is doing nothing for you. You have nothing tieing the bottom (your main mount area) to the top. The shock towers are an entirely different situation. It will require an image to illustrate. When I have a few minutes I will throw one together.

[dad23boys]

[Ranchero50]

Looks like it's time for a little moderation...

Dad, by deleting your posts no one can come to your defense or really understand what's going on. Can you please post some pictures of the questionable work? Hard to say this diplomaticly but if you do something dumb that fails and someone copies it think of the consequences. I think elgemcdlf may have valid questions about the integrety of the modification so leave the attitude out of your post and lets all learn about these things together.

Jamie

[dad23boys]

Looks like it's time for a little moderation...

Dad, by deleting your posts no one can come to your defense or really understand what's going on. Can you please post some pictures of the questionable work? Hard to say this diplomaticly but if you do something dumb that fails and someone copies it think of the consequences. I think elgemcdlf may have valid questions about the integrity of the modification so leave the attitude out of your post and lets all learn about these things together.

Jamie

I left all of what we both said for 2 days on there and nobody said anything. I tried to defend myself but he continued to I felt to harass me. The photos and most of the video links have been up there for 2 and a half years. I have tried to be nice but it sounds like you and this other guy don't see it that way. I have felt very humiliated since this person brought this up what I feel is an attack on my integrity Thur. night. Me and my students worked very hard on this along with hours of research and consulting different professionals both local and with instructors who teach for Ford Motor Company. The truck in question has already been on the road for 2 years and nearly 30,000 Miles with no issue in the area he is referring to. The truck has done very well as me and my son have really put it through paces on and off road. I really appreciate all the positive support, knowledge and kind words all the other folks who have posted on this thread have given me. I don't think I will be able to post anything more on Fordification again and this saddens my hart because of all the kind and knowledgeable people I have meet here. Jamie I sorry it appears you think I done something dumb here and you think I have an attitude also. Like I said earlier I have tried to be nice but even after I offered to agree to to disagree on this he just kept coming at me with all of this. The reason I deleted what my response was I was trying to remove the whole thread but just made a mistake on that. It was untended.