My Cummins conversion project truck

[duckbill59]

This is one of my projects that began back in 1995 when I bought the green and white 72 F250 4X4 to use around the property we bought to build on. It was used to haul stuff and ended up used more as a tractor than a truck pulling stumps and dragging things around here.

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59 at 2010-05-09
After a change of wheels bought from Heep70!

By duckbill59 at 2010-05-09
And another picture

By duckbill59 at 2010-05-09
Please keep in mind that I am not much of a photographer and really had no intent of documenting thoroughly with a camera. The photos I will post just happened.....mainly for my own viewing!
So next I picked up this Burgandy 72 Camper Special from the son of the original owner with 32,417 miles on it. It seemed to be in decent condition with only minor rust found but it is apparent it had been plowed in the front at some time with some sheetmetal replacement done.

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]
Hauling some wood.

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]
And yet another picture of the "Burgandy" Ford.

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]
Not too bad for $500.00!
And now for the Cummins donor truck. A 1993 Dodge 1ton service truck that I traded a 1986 Honda XL600 for. It seemed to run very well for having over 200,000 miles on the odometer.

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]
So I removed the Cummins and its automatic transmission as well as the intercooler, air bags and other items I thought I could use from it for the Ford project. I sold the seats out of it and got a little from a scrapper for the rest of it.
So this is the starting vehicles that I hope will ultimatley result in 1 1972 F250 4X4 Cummins powered truck!

[Ranchero50]

Good luck, rumor has it you'll be into the firewall. I'm doing a '89 F450 swap now. 7.3 to 6bt, PITA.

Jamie

[duckbill59]

So next after getting the engine and transmssion out of the donor truck, I pressure washed them both and did basic maintenance like filters on the engine and transmssion. Everything looked good for both the engine and transmission so I will re-use them as is with new fluids.

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]
I then brought the green truck into the shop after removing the front clip and bed for disposal. There was very little to re-use from all that sheetmetal as there was a lot of rust in the bed floor and along the bodyside seam. The core support and front lower valance was also pretty rusty as were the front fenders where the rear stiffner is. And when I got the truck, it already had replacement inner fender/cab attachment pieces installed. Luckily, most all of that is good on the burgandy truck. I also took advantage with the sheetmetal removed to install a set of 4" Skyjacker springs front and back. It was also a good time to install a steering sector out of a 1979 F250 4X4. I had a couple metal plates bent to fit the framerail and I used tubular spacers between the welded in plates and the frame rail for strength. Also I had to modify the front crossmember for oil pan clearance for the diesel engine. it seemed like the perfect time to hack 2 inches out of the middle. Luckily there are forums like this that gave me all this needed information making it easy to to.

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]

By duckbill59 at 2010-05-09
So with the old 360 and 4 speed out of the truck, I began cleaning up the frame with a combination of pressure washing, needle gun, and a tool I borrowed from work made by Snap On that is a air driven rotary wire brush thing. Works real good with cleaning the frame. I know about media blasting and powdercoating but figured I would just save the money and do it manually. I used Extend rust treatment followed by Hammerite primer and paint.

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]
So thanks to all of you that have done these modifications and posted it on the forum!

[duckbill59]

Good luck, rumor has it you'll be into the firewall. I'm doing a '89 F450 swap now. 7.3 to 6bt, PITA.

Jamie

Thanks for the comment. How is your swap going? I ended up with a set of 89 Ford 1ton axles that I had hoped to use with this project but found out that they won't work on my truck without lots of modifications to the spring perch locations. They are in my extra parts bin now until I am done gathering "wrong" parts for my project!

[averagef250]

If you want room for the intercooler, a decent radiator and a fan you'll need about 1.5" more room than you have. The gen1 intercooler and plumbing is not worth installing IMO. They are too small for any sort of reasonable power level.

Check your crank thrust. Most gen1 motors have the thrust bearing in the oil pan. Now's the time to fix it. Replace the headgasket. Now's the time to replace it, if it's original or older than 1997 it's toast. The turbine housing on your 93 turbo is an 18.5 cm2 if it's original. That's a bad thing. a wastegated 14 or a non-gated 16 is more ideal regardless of what you do with the truck. If you have the dough get a better converter for the A518 before it goes in or convert it to a 47RH (give it lockup). If you drive it much it's a night and day difference having lockup.

Will you have enough room for a center driveline? Those A518's are long buggers.

All that said, I used the same drivetrain (92 dodge) in the 77 F350 I gave to my dad. The A518 works good, but the converter sucks. My dad doesn't care though, he just drives it around town and likes how the truck has more power than it needs. I used a 16CM turbine housing on the stock H1C cartridge and compressor, 3" mandrel intake plumbing with an intercooler from a newer 2005ish Hino cabover truck and a 94-97 powerstroke F350 radiator. I mounted the intercooler and radiator behind the core support, moved the engine into the firewall 1.5" and have 1" between the fan and radiator.

[duckbill59]

Thanks Dustin for the suggestions in your post. I did purchase the 16cm housing for it thinking the original was 22cm for some reason. But then I looked closer at the one that came with the engine and realized it was an 18cm. So hopefully the small difference in cm's will make a noticeable difference to it's performance. As far as the tranny goes, I just need it to hold on for a while as well as the engine for a rebuild down the road. I am probably more like your dad in that at least with the diesl, I can afford to drive more miles than I cared to drive either one of the Fords with the FE engines. And the "grunt" that the Dodge had playing around with it seemed more powerful than either of the stock 360's. I have noticed that converters, and transmissions and parts for the dodge are expensive so I need to start saving now for that venture. But I did the fix for the killer dowel pin to eliminate that problem anytime soon. I sure do appreciate your comments and suggestions Dustin.

[duckbill59]

So my next step is to position the engine using the offset to the passenger side I have read about and also trying to keep from having to modify the firewall.

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]
I am realizing that with relocation of the original frame mounts in stock drilled holes and some modifications to the mount, I could use the Dodge engine rubber mounts and it appears to work very well for me.

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]
And although the pictures here right now don't reflect the final slope of the engine/transmission, I have ample crossmember clearance and firewall clearance for the engine.

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]
I ended up completing the front mounting system as described, and using the Dodge transmission crossmember and stock Ford frame mount pads, I then was able to trim the crossmember to fit the frame width and drill it and the frame mounting pads. So with the engine mounted in the frame, I figured the next thing to do was get rid of the cab! I will go look for my sawzall!

[Ranchero50]

The '89 is working out, as Dustin suggested it had to go as far back as possible. With the tranny (ZF series) staying in place the engine was too far forward. So everything was shifted about as far as the driveshaft would allow and now there is enough room for the radiator. Plan is to graft the Dodge crossmember into the Ford one to hold the Dodge radiator and intercooler.

Jamie

[duckbill59]

So I don't have much to report as a long work day prevented doing much both on the truck and documenting what I did. I decided to mock up the transfer case shift linkage utilizing some of the old bracketry and modifying it to onto the dodge transmssion. And I used the rotted out floorboards on the green truck which made fitting the bracket pretty darn easy! Plus I had the in tact tunnel so I could get the linkage to fit the original hole. So with that done, I can now sawzall the cab apart.

Thanks Dustin for the suggestions on my project! I had already gone to a comapny (PATC) to buy the pressure switch(s) I thought I needed to make the transmssion shift into OD on it's own. I bought both a 44 and 48 PSI switch as they said 1mph = 1psi off of the govenor port . But since I will be running the 36" tires, and I will be changing the gear ratios to 3:73, I will probably have to refigure the pressure switch deal. Maybe the 100 PSI switch you refer to will be right for me! And the transmssion and converter info you provided will help me in the future. I have rebuilt 1 turbo 350 and helped a guy do a 200R4 once but never worked a dodge transmssion. I did download the manual for it and have guidance now.

[averagef250]

Thanks Dustin for the suggestions on my project! I had already gone to a comapny (PATC) to buy the pressure switch(s) I thought I needed to make the transmssion shift into OD on it's own. I bought both a 44 and 48 PSI switch as they said 1mph = 1psi off of the govenor port . But since I will be running the 36" tires, and I will be changing the gear ratios to 3:73, I will probably have to refigure the pressure switch deal. Maybe the 100 PSI switch you refer to will be right for me! And the transmssion and converter info you provided will help me in the future. I have rebuilt 1 turbo 350 and helped a guy do a 200R4 once but never worked a dodge transmssion. I did download the manual for it and have guidance now.

You're very welcome. PATC's site shows the theory, but the facts they represent there only hold true for the gas transmissions. That and Hobbs switches are much higher quality than the stuff they sell there. Like I said, make sure you hook up a 200 PSI pressure gauge on some hose and run it into the cab where you can watch it while you drive. Put OD a toggle switch and drive the heck out of it switching into overdrive in all manners of situations. After 20-30 minutes and a few dozen 3-4 shifts you should have a real good feeling for where overdrive needs to shift at and be confident in ordering your hobbs switch. I get mine from Isspro.

3.73's and 36's should work well.

[duckbill59]

Since the transfer case linkage was mocked up and built around the dodge transmssion, I went ahead and sawzalled the cab apart. The top was not too bad to manhandle by myself, as was the floorboards. The back of the cab was a little heavier but the firewall was just flatout HEAVY!!!!! I drug it outside to the scrap pile and got the frame cleaned up and painted with the Extend, Hammerite primer and paint. I also purchased a 4" generic exhaust system off of EBAY for a 1993 Dodge truck to adapt to my truck. So after some hacking, fitting, and welding, I got the frame cleaned up, painted, and the exhaust system hung. It's starting to look like a do-able project now that things are cleaned up front to back and somewhat assembled! I am becoming pumped to start putting it back together now.!!!

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]
This picture shows the transfer case shift linkage modifications and the exhaust at the turbo.

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]
Another picture of the transfer case shift linkage.

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]
My handywork adapting from the turbo to the exhaust 4" pipe. Work is a little crude but it works.

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]
The exhaust system fitted through the frame and out the back behind the passenger tire.

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]
And yet another picture of the frame before the cleaning and painting. Drivelines Northwest in Tacoma built the 6" long driveshaft for me and installed new U-joints. I didn't like spending the money to have someone else build the driveline but I didn't have access to the equipment to do it myself. Just like the plate I had made for the front framerail crossmember (the old one was bent bad), and the plates made for boxing the front framerails, I didn't have access to a brake to do it myself and ended up hiring it out. Luckily for me, the two shops I hired to build my stuff, understood "goverment" projects and gave me a decent deal pricewise.

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]
I had to section roughly 2" from the transfer case mounting crossmember in order to obtain correct offset of the short driveshaft between the transmission and transfer case. It was a fine balance to obtain the 2-3 degree rake of the engine/transmssion and to get the less than three degrees offset on the driveshaft. I think I can shim as needed to correct any problems with driveshaft angles/offset now that the transfer case crossmember has been modified.
So that's about it for now. I can't stop working on it now that I am getting somewhere with it!! I need sleep!!!!

[BlueOvalDave]

This is a great project. Your work looks outstanding. I've got an 05 Powerstroke but those cummins sound like a diesel should.

Great thread and good luck

[duckbill59]

Thanks BlueOvalDave for the nice comments. Basically all I did today was recruit bodies from work to help me this weekend swap bodies from one frame to another. I did spray some penetrating fluid on the burgandy trucks bed bolts and removed the spare tire. I hope to get the body ready to swap by Sunday when people are coming for beer and food! They do know work will be involved before the beer and food!

[duckbill59]

I spent a couple days getting the frames prepared for a body swap. Took the better part of one day preparing the "burgandy" Ford for the cab and frontend swap as well as getting the bed stood up out by my El Camino project. Took a bit to get the bed bolts off, the cab bolts and all the items in the engine compartment. I set both the "burgandy" Ford and the 4X4 frame on the lowest blocks I could find for the body swap.
[url
By duckbill59 at 2010-05-09][/url]
And yet another pic or two.....

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]

By duckbill59 at 2010-05-09
And I wished I had someone to take pictures of the "work party" that volunteered to help me lift the cab and frontend over the engine of the "burgandy" Ford and walk it to the rear and then right over to the 4X4 frame and right up and over the Cummins engine. It took 9 of us although we might have been able to do it with less people. It surprised me in that I thought we were going to do a test lift then decide how we were going to do it. But once we got it in the air, it started moving to the rear and it was "game on"!

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]
Just one minor hickup while setting the body down on the frame.....the core support on the drivers side needed a small trim to fit around the steering box installation. I forgot about having to trim the "green" Fords core support. Once that was done, it sat down perfectly.

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]

By [url=http://profile.imageshack.us/user/duckbill59]duckbill59 at 2010-05-09[/url]
It took all of about 20 minutes to do the swap and admire the truck and then it was off to eating and drinking with some mini bike and motorcycle riding around the place! Now that everyone has left, I cleaned up and came in to do this post and watch drag racing! Will start reassembly tomorrow! Thats it for now.

[duckbill59]

Well today I started bolting things together such as the core support mounts which I got from LMC. Also the front cab mounts fit really well also from LMC. Now the rear mounts.....the holes didn't line up between the frame and cab. So I drilled new holes through the cab after measuring the cab to ensure it was square to the frame. I ran up to the hardware store and found some plugs that could be siliconed in the original cab holes. I also had to shorten the center bushing of the rear cab mounts from LMC as they were too long to allow tightening of the whole rubber mount to the cab and frame. Don't bother calling LMC asking questions as they have no idea but did offer to send another set to me!. I just shortened the bushing by 3/8" and it seems to work just fine. I also pulled the fuel tank sending unit and sweated in a fitting that will allow for a fuel return from the diesel engine. And I learned that the manual steering column and the automatic columns are different but I will tackle making that work next.