pointless ignition

[68monster]

i am trying to squeeze any and all gas milage out of my '68 s 390, i was wondering about installing a pointless ignition like the ones you can get from jcwhitney / jegs / summit i am looking at the accel 2020
Accel #110-2020

# Points Eliminator Kit1957-74 Ford V8
has anyone tried this? my motor is not modded
i am planning on a different cam an 4 bbl carb (edelbrok) and 4bbl intake (motorcraft off of a mustang!!!),
it has a hight flow exhaust and intake what else should i be looking at doing ?

[lee_ford]

I was thinking about one of the pointless conversions also, but after reading the "Ignition timing curve" thread, I am going to go for a whole new distributor. Like you I am planning a mild cam, intake and carb upgrade. Check out that thread, you too may go the easy route and just get a new distributor.

[ArizonaDan]

FYI on DurasparkII distributors,

You can buy a re-manufactured (not new) Duraspark II distributor and the appropriate factory ignition module for around $35.00 - $45.00 each at AutoZone. I am sure that other parts stores offer a comparable price. For this price it is pointless (no pun intended) to even consider wrecking yard ignition components.

My reason for going with the Duraspark II set-up rather than the aftermarket systems is two-fold:

First, cost. The benefits to be gained from an MSD or a Mallory distributor and associated ignition components are not worth the $250.00 to $350.00 dollar cost in my opinion. If I were building a motor for a high performance street car I would absolutely go with a full aftermarket ignition system. A factory Ford Duraspark II ignition system will meet all of my requirements for less than $100.00.

Second, performance. CDI type ignition systems (MSD, Mallory) are designed for improved performance throughout the RPM range, with MSD delivering Multiple Spark Discharges (hence the name MSD) from idle up to 3,000 RPM. Beyond 3,000 RPM it delivers only a single spark, granted a more stable and powerful spark than stock ignition systems. However, my truck will be used as a truck. It will never see 4,500 RPM, and very rarely even 4,000 RPM. In my opinion and for my application a Duraspark II ignition system is an enormous improvement over the original and barely adequate points based system.

From a strictly objective cost/performance comparison I will gain all of the performance and reliablity improvements I desire for one-half to one-third the cost of the aftermarket systems. This alone is reason enough to choose the Duraspark upgrade over the aftermarket systems, and if replacement parts are necessary they are available at just about any decent auto parts store within a reasonable driving distance from your home.

The following three links are a must read for anyone considering ignition system upgrades:

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2006/12/DuraSpark/
http://www.bronco.com/cms/node/1017
http://www.mustangmonthly.com/techartic ... uning.html

Good luck with your projects,

Dan

[george worley]

If I was to replace my Mallory Hy-Fire CD system I would go with the Duro Spark ignition. But my CD system has been working great for over 20 years. Puts out a hot spark at the plugs and has never failed to start the engine even when flooded. I do have to change the points when ever the rubbing block wears out but with the miles I put on it is about every 2 years.

[lee_ford]

ArizonaDan, you make a good point. Thanks for having level headed thinking.

Since many of my upgrades will come later, I am now thinking that a minor upgrade now and the full blown race setup later, is in order. Save a few headaches between now and race days. My distributor is fine so I checked on the Accell units. The Accel unit is $59.95 from Summit and $106.99 from JC Whitney. It pays to shop around.

[fitzwell]

FYI on DurasparkII distributors,

You can buy a re-manufactured (not new) Duraspark II distributor and the appropriate factory ignition module for around $35.00 - $45.00 each at AutoZone. I am sure that other parts stores offer a comparable price. For this price it is pointless (no pun intended) to even consider wrecking yard ignition components.

My reason for going with the Duraspark II set-up rather than the aftermarket systems is two-fold:

First, cost. The benefits to be gained from an MSD or a Mallory distributor and associated ignition components are not worth the $250.00 to $350.00 dollar cost in my opinion. If I were building a motor for a high performance street car I would absolutely go with a full aftermarket ignition system. A factory Ford Duraspark II ignition system will meet all of my requirements for less than $100.00.

Second, performance. CDI type ignition systems (MSD, Mallory) are designed for improved performance throughout the RPM range, with MSD delivering Multiple Spark Discharges (hence the name MSD) from idle up to 3,000 RPM. Beyond 3,000 RPM it delivers only a single spark, granted a more stable and powerful spark than stock ignition systems. However, my truck will be used as a truck. It will never see 4,500 RPM, and very rarely even 4,000 RPM. In my opinion and for my application a Duraspark II ignition system is an enormous improvement over the original and barely adequate points based system.

From a strictly objective cost/performance comparison I will gain all of the performance and reliablity improvements I desire for one-half to one-third the cost of the aftermarket systems. This alone is reason enough to choose the Duraspark upgrade over the aftermarket systems, and if replacement parts are necessary they are available at just about any decent auto parts store within a reasonable driving distance from your home.

The following three links are a must read for anyone considering ignition system upgrades:

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2006/12/DuraSpark/
http://www.bronco.com/cms/node/1017
http://www.mustangmonthly.com/techartic ... uning.html

Good luck with your projects,

Dan

exactly. Add a TFI ignition coil & call it done. If you're bound & determined to go aftermarket, i'd stay away from Accel components. Just as a thought, Ford spent millions to engineer the DII system. Aftermarket manufacturers spend millions on advertising...... i'm not sayin, im just sayin.

[lee_ford]

You guys are so wise… .Thanks.

Now how about a little more details. Like what years to ask for at the parts store.

What year of Duraspark II distributor will have an ignition advance curve for modern gas? I assume the same year for the ignition module and TFI ignition coil.

[ArizonaDan]

lee-ford,

There is a companion thread running right now called "timing advance curve" that contains closely related information to this one. I would recommend you read that one as well for more ignition system upgrade info. Duraspark II was introduced in '75 or '76 I believe. Multiple year Duraspark distributors will work in our older trucks. Stay away from the Duraspark I if you can. Follow the links to the three web sites I attached above and the majority of your questions and concerns will most likely be answered.

One side note: As I stated in a previous posting I will NOT install the Duraspark components until AFTER I have completed and tested a 3G charging system. Follow this link for info and parts for 3G upgrades http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=75 My reason for this is simple. Sensitive electronics DO NOT like voltage fluctuations and power surges. The original charging systems on these old trucks are as inefficient and unreliable as the original points based ignition systems are. That said, 3G alternators produce a very STABLE voltage output throughout the entire RPM range and all operating conditions which reduces the stresses on the electronics that can diminish their performance and operating life.

I'm NOT saying you can't use a Duraspark II system with an original charging system, many people have and have enjoyed improved engine performance. I am saying that every single electrical component in your truck derives its electrical power from the alternator and the more efficient and stable your charging system is the better ALL of your electrical components will operate, especially your ignition system.

It is entirely possible that installing a Duraspark II ignition (or any aftermarket ignition) in any vehicle with a sub-standard charging system will not produce the performance gains you were expecting, and you may inadvertently blame the ignition system for this failure when in fact the sub-standard charging system is what is limiting your performance gains. Think of the alternator as the foundation that the entire electrical system must be built upon and start there rather than on the peripheral devices.

Remember, Google is your friend. There are literally hundreds of sources for information related to improvements for older vehicles if you just put some time into it. No one source can give you all the answers you are looking for. Fordification.com is possibly the most complete source for general needs related to '68 to '72 trucks but there are other web-sites that can be more specific to your exact needs.

Good luck with your project,

Dan

[ottawa rogue]

if you can get aournd the crossbreeding issue, you might consider something like this if you go to a duraspark setup
http://www.carbdford.com/tech/HEI/hei.htm
in the article, he mentions that you could use a TFI module with your point distributor, but provides no further info

[lee_ford]

I appreciate all the details and links to setting up an optimum ignition setup, and when I get around to hot roding the motor (Cam/4brl/headers), I will be looking into doing one of those setups.

For now I think the simple Pertronix ignition setup several people mentioned in STICKY: Best mods or upgrades you have done to your bump? will do me just fine.