Turbo charged FE?

[mrtleavitt]

Has anyone done this or heard of someone that has turbo charged a FE engine? A good friend of mine wants to turbo a 428 that I am going to build. I know he can do it, I have no doubt about that, but I'm wondering if someone around here has done this before.

[convincor]

From what I've heard/read in the past, FE's don't like the heat.

[sport71]

Ford FE motors are tork monsters, they are low RPM engins.

As far as I know turbos are for hi RPM engins.

If you do go turbo I recomend that you use the 427 side oiler, all LeMans, the walls are thicker, crank and pistons are stronger, plus it has the 4 bolt main 2 on the bottom and 2 on the sides.

If you're wondering how much that will run you, and that's if you can find one, you're looking around $12,000 for starters. Even if you can afford it, not just anyone can build an FE like that. Some where on this site there is a project titled Poor Mans 427, you might want to look that up. I hope this helps, good luck which ever way you go. Over & out

[averagef250]

If you don't know anything about turbocharging it's probably best you don't give advice about it.

Turbos work wherever in the RPM range of the engine you set them up to. Where the efficiency of the turbocharger is greatest this is where the engine makes power at. If you put a small turbo on a stock 360 you might end up with 350 lb/ft at 1500 RPM and nothing over 2000. This is why turbo sizing is important.

The beauty of turbos is they do make awesome low end and midrange power. When you build a turbo large inch gas engine you typically build the engine with a reasonable flow and RPM capability yet set the engine up in other respects to make the best naturally aspirated power below the turbo's boost threshold.

I believe an FE would be an ideal turbo engine for it's long stroke and bulletproof low end. The downside to the FE is crap intake sealing and poor headbolts. If you are going to push large boost numbers make sure you do something to address these issues like have the work done by a machinist that knows what they're doing, using head studs and possibly O-ringing the cylinders for 10+ PSI.

The biggest disadvantage to the FE and what makes it an antique is it's straight up valve design. They have good chambers, but valves that aren't as good at making efficient combustion as newer canted valve engines. In a forced induction engine intake port and valve design don't matter nearly as much as the shear stoutness of the lower end to handle the cylinder pressure. Therefore, a turbo FE should run par with any other newer engine done right.

I would go with a 390 and steel 428 crank myself. Find a solid D3 or D4TE truck block, have it sonic checked and keep the overbore small. I'm sure even a 30 over 428 would handle considerable boost pressure, but the thicker the cylinder walls the longer the rings will last under severe use. Turbos are more condusive to long strokes than big bores.

The engine and turbo(s) will be easy compared to the engine management and tuning you'll need to make it work right. Megasquirt or midified EEC-IV if your sharp or spend 20 times the money on something else if you aren't.

[sport71]

If you don't know anything about turbocharging it's probably best you don't give advice about it.

Turbos work wherever in the RPM range of the engine you set them up to. Where the efficiency of the turbocharger is greatest this is where the engine makes power at. If you put a small turbo on a stock 360 you might end up with 350 lb/ft at 1500 RPM and nothing over 2000. This is why turbo sizing is important.

The beauty of turbos is they do make awesome low end and midrange power. When you build a turbo large inch gas engine you typically build the engine with a reasonable flow and RPM capability yet set the engine up in other respects to make the best naturally aspirated power below the turbo's boost threshold.

I believe an FE would be an ideal turbo engine for it's long stroke and bulletproof low end. The downside to the FE is crap intake sealing and poor headbolts. If you are going to push large boost numbers make sure you do something to address these issues like have the work done by a machinist that knows what they're doing, using head studs and possibly O-ringing the cylinders for 10+ PSI.

The biggest disadvantage to the FE and what makes it an antique is it's straight up valve design. They have good chambers, but valves that aren't as good at making efficient combustion as newer canted valve engines. In a forced induction engine intake port and valve design don't matter nearly as much as the shear stoutness of the lower end to handle the cylinder pressure. Therefore, a turbo FE should run par with any other newer engine done right.

I would go with a 390 and steel 428 crank myself. Find a solid D3 or D4TE truck block, have it sonic checked and keep the overbore small. I'm sure even a 30 over 428 would handle considerable boost pressure, but the thicker the cylinder walls the longer the rings will last under severe use. Turbos are more condusive to long strokes than big bores.

The engine and turbo(s) will be easy compared to the engine management and tuning you'll need to make it work right. Megasquirt or midified EEC-IV if your sharp or spend 20 times the money on something else if you aren't.

[Happy_Camper]

I've been doing a *lot* of research on this over the past month. So far, I haven't come up with anyone who has done it.
Some info I have found that may help (I'm no stranger to boosted applications):

There is another thread called "Turbo" down the page a bit that would be some good reading.
None of the small blocks I've "boosted" have had canted valves, but all have had intake runners, pockets and chambers that generate good turbulence. From my *research* (I have only been inside one FE for a standard rebuild), this is lacking in the stock FE head and chamber. Modify the bowls, chambers / squish band (or go aftermarket), and that will solve the problem of heat spots in the chambers due to laminar flow, and will help stave off detonation under boost.

Next issue that I have not found an answer to is the the ability of the cooling system to transfer heat out quickly. Aluminum heads would be a huge help here. I have not found anything on flow rates, and coolant passage surface area yet.

Last issue, I'm running into is stagnent air in the bump's engine compartment. I did some measurements, and it's pretty sad. This may, or may not affect your build. Pretty much all these old cars suffered from air stagnation. A good air dam under the front of the car helps, as do side skirts. Side skirts on a bump would look pretty silly, but an air dam under the front is possible. It takes a lot of air flow through the engine compartment to keep up with the requirements of the additional heat stress on the cooling system from boosted applications.

From what I've learned on the FE, I'll be able to make plenty of power and can increase VE to the point that will suit my needs while remaining naturally aspirated, so I do not plan on pursuing this.
I'd enjoy reading about someone's success though. Boost adds a whole new dimension.
Good luck Sir!

[mrtleavitt]

Ya, I'm using a 428 that's bored 60 over right now so that worries me a bit. I was just toying with the idea. I have Edelbrock's 428 CJ ALuminum heads. With the build that I'm going with I should (hope to) be around 500 hp. The reason the turbo sparked my intrest is because the elevation I'm at now is 4500 ft. After I get school done I will be returning to Nevada where the elevation is only 1200 ft so that will make a world of difference. I don't think I'll go with the turbo but thanks for all the info guys!

[averagef250]

Where is it chiseled in stone turbocharging has anything to do with above normal RPM ranges? Stating something as fact is fine if you can back it up. A turbo could care less what RPM a piston engine operates at. Heat and air mass operate turbochargers. If you have a tiny little engine with a large turbocharger you will need high RPM ability to utilize the high flow of the turbo. Other wise match the turbo to the engine and it's powerband.

You can build 30 PSI off idle if you wanted to. My 239 cid CTD does that easily and the turbo is completely past it's efficiency range by 2500 RPM. It will build 60 PSI at 1500 RPM unwastegated.

One additional thing to consider here is intercooling. I have no idea how much a large internal area IC will effect spool time on low boost gas engine applications, but turbodiesels do not notice it. The biggest IC you can possibly squeeze behind the grill makes for the best results. Non-intercooled the intake piping on my 4BT runs around 250 degrees at 30 PSI. The air entering the engine is likely over 300 degrees. Intercooled I can put my hand on the piping.

[sport71]

[Levis]

Ford FE motors are tork monsters, they are low RPM engins.

As far as I know turbos are for hi RPM engins.

If you do go turbo I recomend that you use the 427 side oiler, all LeMans, the walls are thicker, crank and pistons are stronger, plus it has the 4 bolt main 2 on the bottom and 2 on the sides.

If you're wondering how much that will run you, and that's if you can find one, you're looking around $12,000 for starters. Even if you can afford it, not just anyone can build an FE like that. Some where on this site there is a project titled Poor Mans 427, you might want to look that up. I hope this helps, good luck which ever way you go. Over & out

Last I checked, there were millions of TC'd diesels on the road. When was the last Time that you saw a Peterbilt turn more than 3750?
On the other hand, many ricers like turdo'd civics that will rev to the moon. The deciding factor of powerband is the weight of the vehicle

[19FORD67]

I havent done it but I sure would if I had the money. I wouldnt even worry about damaging the old beater. I wouldn't put
25psi into it but I'd run 5-7 for sure. All a turbo does is compress air and force it into the cylinder. When you compress air
it gets hotter, how hot I dunno, you can however use a intercooler to cool it down, it looks like a radiator with fins on it
that uses moving air from your fan to cool the inside(which happens to be air too,lol). When you mash the gas you won't get an immediate response however because the turbo has to get to spinning (turbo lag) you can reduce this effect by using ceramic blades(lighter) and special ball bearings. Also you can add a "pre" turbo, which is basically a smaller turbo that works better at lower rpm's (since it's smaller its internals are lighter, hence it speeds up faster with less pressure) then at higher rpm the bigger "secondary" turbo takes over. I read somewhere you can expect 30%-50% HP gains. 50% of 300HP is
150HP very sweet yes? Sorry though, I wish that I've done one, if you do one I'm sure lots of folks here would like to monitor your progress as you jump off into it. Take some pics for sure.

[sport71]

Intristing...

[tfnaaf]

here is a link to one of the best web sites that has lots of info on turbo charging. It's geared towards EFI and sport compacts but still lots of excellent info...

http://beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/g2icturbo.html