just another header debate

[sgs]

I confess! I am not the worlds biggest proponent of headers. Usually I don't like them. I think their value on a stock engine is greatly overstated.

That being said; I am rebuilding a 390 for my 71 F250 4X4 the build will be mostly stock, .030 over, std compression, mild cam, performer rpm manifold, 600 Holley, Unilite distributor. The goal is to pull my horse trailer at 60 mph with up to 4 horses in it, (16000GCW) as economically as possible. My truck has a 4.11 ratio and direct drive 4spd, so it turns 2600 at 60mph. Operating range will be mainly at 2600, but it will have to pull to 2000.

My exhaust manifolds are shot. I will ether have to replace them or buy headers. Long tube headers are said to develop the most torque. 4 into 1's, which most headers are, are for high RPM and I've heard they can decrease power at low RPMS. Tri Y headers develop the most power at low to mid rpm's. Sounds like what I would want if I go the header route.

Feel free to comment on any of the above.

Who makes a tri Y for a 71 F250 4X4?

sgs

[DuckRyder]

FPA makes a tri Y for most fords...

[sgs]

Duck Ryder,

I hate that when that happens! I replied earlier but it must have gotten lost in cyberspace, so here goes again.

Thanks for the advise. I had never heard of FPA. I went to their site and your right, I think they have just what I need. The quality looks good and the prices seem fair for what your getting. They have an option for heavy duty 14 ga tubes and 3/8 flange plates that I might want to consider. I think I will call them Monday.

I also went to Sanderson's site because someone here said they were happy with their product. I had never heard of Sanderson ether. I was surprised to see them bragging up their shorty headers. I always heard that shorty's offered virtually no benefits over manifolds on a basically stock engine. I will have to discuss this with them also.

There is benefit and then there is cost/ benefit. I talked to Barry R at survival about going with Edlebrock heads. He said for what I am trying to do at 2600 RPM's I would gain about 5 HP. That is not enough benefit for me to invest that kind of $$$.

On the Sanderson site there is a picture of Don's rod. Don is a fixture on another forum that I participate in.

There are so many products, services, and ideas out there that you can only learn about by participating in these forums. It's nice to find a forum where ideas are shared and people help each other rather than talking trash and flaming everyone. This is a good one!

sgs

[My427stang]

The FPA is a great header for FEs and be sure to tell him which head you have on the motor. D2TE-A, C7AE-A, and C8AE-H take a different header flange than the others. If you have any question, post your head casting here, there are some oddballs

I doubt Sanderson offers that, and therefor I wouldnt do it, plus a shorter primary pipe is tuned to higher RPM and usually has a poor collector, not good for your use.

As far as long tubes, your information isnt wrong, but its too basic to make a decision.

Long primary pipes, when properly sized for the RPM range, create as good or better scavenging than a shorter primary pipe like a Tri-Y, so in that case, what you were told is backwards

Now everything is relative, a Tri-Y usually uses smaller pipe size because it merges is a couple places to get the scavenging.

Now a Hedman truck header is indeed 4:1 but will not lose low end torque because of the small primary pipe size.

Add big race headers, with a larger primary pipe, and yes, exhaust gas slows down and you lose low end torque, but the same holds true for any header design.

I would go either FPA, Hedman, or Hooker, and then be sure your heads match the headers, if they dont, they WILL leak.

Once you get them, chase all the bolt holes, use antiseize, tighten evenly like you would a head or intake manifold, get it warm at idle and retighten with the engine warm, they will last for years without leaks.

If possible to go ceramic coated they will last much longer as well. Centerainly worth the price if the truck is worth it

[averagef250]

My personal experience is sanderson shortys utterly suck on a mild truck 390 and hedman long tubes work excellent if you can fit them (they will not fit with a high pinion axle and no lift). The same engine with hedmans made more torque at 2000 RPM than it did with sandersons anywhere in the RPM range. I've heard great things about FPA's tri-y's, but never had the bucks for them myself. The hedmans can be had ceramic coated with decent flanges for a too good to be true price so I went with those and was very happy.


Others will disagree, but I think you will lose down low towing grunt going with the RPM intake over an iron one or a performer. I hated the RPM under 2000 RPM. It was like I lost 1000 RPM of useful power over running the standard car 4V intake. The performer will pull strong to 4000 RPM before falling on it's face and the car intake has close to the same low end grunt, but goes all the way past 4500 (RPM's you will never, ever see towing anything). The mild 390 I had would accelerate any load up atleast 7% grade above 1800 RPM in direct gear with 35's and 4.10's with the car intake or performer. With the RPM I had to keep it over 2500 RPM for it to feel comfortable with weight behind it.

[sgs]

Average F250,

High pinion and no lift, does that describe my 71 F250? If so, it sounds like FPA's might be my only choice. I have been having a hard time convincing myself that shorty's are the way to go.

As far as the performer RPM goes, I had Barry R at Survival help me spec this engine. He knows it is for pulling and will run between 2000 and 2600. He is very big on the RPM even at lower RPM's.I hope your negative experiance with the performer RPM was caused by a different combination of parts, not the fault of the manifold. He is specing the cam too. He asked if I would trust him to pick it out. Who am I to argue with the master.

I am currently building two engines with Barry's help. The other is a 445 stroker that will go ahead of the Ranger overdrive in my 73. That engine needs to pull at 2000.

sgs

[averagef250]

If your 71 F250 has the stock low pinion front axle you are fine, any header will fit. With a later model disc axle from a 77.5-79 (I hope you have disc brakes hauling 16K GCVW) you won't fit long tubes without a lift tri-Y or otherwise there just is not physical space to do so.

I hear barry knows his stuff and hope the engine combo works well for you. I had a 9:1 390 with worked D2 heads, crane 901 4500 RPM cam, headers, HEI, 600 carb. The RPM came alive over 3000 RPM, below that any other intake kicked it's ass IMHO. The FE RPM also really sucked for a driver/tow type vehicle since it completely lacks an exhaust crossover. The RPM would not drive cold on a cold day.

[sgs]

Average F250,

Time will tell, If I am making a mistake I am making it twice so I am crossing my fingers. I will be talking to Barry next week. I will ask him about your points.

I shouldn't confess to this but I have been hauling with drum brakes and yes they are lacking. My trailer has real good brakes and I don't go fast. That being said, I don't recommend it and we are converting to Dodge power disc brakes on the original axle as part of the frame off.

I hope to have the 71 done by the beginning of June. The 73 will be whenever. I will post an update when I get it back on the road.

sgs

[DuckRyder]

Barry knows his stuff, trust him.

That is not to say don't ask questions, but he knows FE's and won't steer you wrong.