360 FE basics?

[FLATBEDFORD]

I am no engine building expert, but I will say that my stock 360 powered F350 weighs nearly 6,000 lbs. I have had it loaded with another 2500 lbs of scrap metal and pulled the same hills in 4the gear at about 40 mph that bring 18 wheelers down to about 10 or 15 mph. Is my truck a 1/4 mile race winner? NO. But the 360 is no slug either.

[19674x4]

Ide shy away from the 302 just like everybody else is reccomending. they may run up the ponies but have no torque whatsoever and torque is what you need to get thesee 5000 lb trucks rolling. find your self a good 390 and throw a cam and heads and 4bbl intake on it with some headers and you will hold your own on the street. my tired ol 352 in a 3/4ton 4x4 holds its own pretty good. As far as a c6 goes, your gonna be losing potential power and torque. c6's are notorious for this. if you insist on a c6 put a shift kit in it and get it rebuilt to minimise hp and torque loss.

[Hawkrod]

Wow, who said a 360 was a slug? I can't find that anywhere. I said that a 360 was a slug comparatively, but I amsure that no honest or ethical person would take that out of context and make it sound as if I had said something totally different would they? That would simply be a lie wouldn't it? It really isn't fair to misquote somebody or take something out of context.

The fact is that no matter what you do, if you have a 360 and a 390 and they are otherwise the same except for displacement, the 360 would produce a less power. A stock 390 produces more power than a stock 360 and a modified 390 produces more power than a 360 with the same mods. That is just a basic fact and nothing anybody says can ever change that, it is basic physics.

I am a little PO'ed about this word twisting especially since it came from the same guy who said headers were a waste of money and overrated and so stock manifolds are better. How stupid was that?

Headers are overrated, I would save your money. FE log manifolds suck but so does spending a couple hundred bucks on headers and noticing no gain.

I mean hey, you wrote this right? Sounds a bit different out of context doesn't it? Hawkrod

[71Ford100]

Wow, who said a 360 was a slug? I can't find that anywhere. I said that a 360 was a slug comparatively, but I amsure that no honest or ethical person would take that out of context and make it sound as if I had said something totally different would they? That would simply be a lie wouldn't it? It really isn't fair to misquote somebody or take something out of context.

The fact is that no matter what you do, if you have a 360 and a 390 and they are otherwise the same except for displacement, the 360 would produce a less power. A stock 390 produces more power than a stock 360 and a modified 390 produces more power than a 360 with the same mods. That is just a basic fact and nothing anybody says can ever change that, it is basic physics.

I am a little PO'ed about this word twisting especially since it came from the same guy who said headers were a waste of money and overrated and so stock manifolds are better. How stupid was that?

Headers are overrated, I would save your money. FE log manifolds suck but so does spending a couple hundred bucks on headers and noticing no gain.

I mean hey, you wrote this right? Sounds a bit different out of context doesn't it? Hawkrod

For being such a great book mechanic you make about 500 assumptions that are completly wrong. No 360 or 390 is exactly the same and no engine is going to respond to any modification the exact same way, time after time, something somewhere is going to be different, its basic physics. What do you mean by power as that is a pretty broad word to use? Your basic physics example would mean that my parents '94 Mustang with a 302 and my '95 Mustang with a 302 would produce exactly the same power both as just the engine and at the rear wheels (both have same tranny, tire size, and gears as well and both were rated at 215hp when new). I can tell you that the '94 would run circles around the '95 and both stock engines and the '94 has 100,000 more miles on it than the '95. Case in point is two engines don't react the same to everything. Now I do agree that 9/10 times the 390 built the same as a 360 is going to produce more "power" but you can't say that all 10 390's are going to produce this much power and all 10 360's the same as well it just isn't going to happen, they may be close but it will never be exactly the same.

Now my personal opinion is to go with a "390" as it does produce more "power" and more people are going to pay more for a 390 than a 360 if you ever decide to sell.

And to end my rant Hawk I would love to know why its ok for you to twist peoples words and PO them but if it ever happens to you it is just completely and morally wrong? Just extremely curious!

[Hawkrod]

For being such a great book mechanic you make about 500 assumptions that are completly wrong. No 360 or 390 is exactly the same and no engine is going to respond to any modification the exact same way, time after time, something somewhere is going to be different, its basic physics. What do you mean by power as that is a pretty broad word to use? Your basic physics example would mean that my parents '94 Mustang with a 302 and my '95 Mustang with a 302 would produce exactly the same power both as just the engine and at the rear wheels (both have same tranny, tire size, and gears as well and both were rated at 215hp when new). I can tell you that the '94 would run circles around the '95 and both stock engines and the '94 has 100,000 more miles on it than the '95. Case in point is two engines don't react the same to everything. Now I do agree that 9/10 times the 390 built the same as a 360 is going to produce more "power" but you can't say that all 10 390's are going to produce this much power and all 10 360's the same as well it just isn't going to happen, they may be close but it will never be exactly the same.

Now my personal opinion is to go with a "390" as it does produce more "power" and more people are going to pay more for a 390 than a 360 if you ever decide to sell.

And to end my rant Hawk I would love to know why its ok for you to twist peoples words and PO them but if it ever happens to you it is just completely and morally wrong? Just extremely curious!

Boy, you make a lot of assumptions and put a lot of words in my mouth. First off, I am not a book mechanic as you assume, I was service tech and shop foreman for a Lincoln Mercury dealership as well as a factory authorized BMW and Mercedes shop, not some backyard hack. Second, I am an MEng in automotive design and engineering and graduated third in my class, I was in the manufacturing sector for years. I never said that two engines built differently or with other varying factors would have the same power as you say I did. We are talking about bumps and so the engines are very specific as to componentry, we are not talking about Mustangs built much later with different engine management systems, cams and compression, wear etc... A 360 and a 390 from one of our trucks is going to respond to the same mods the same way 10 out of 10 times, it is really that simple. Yes, engine wear will factor in but two identical engines different only by displacement will always behave the same way. The important part of that statement is identical, change anything (including wear issues) and all bets are off. The rod length and ratio will not cause a change in power response in this specific application and that is the only engineering design difference that would be relevent in the specific case we are discussing. it is great that you have two Mustangs that perform differently but the fact is they perform differently because they are not the same. I do realize you wanted to attack me and so grasped at straws but you really should try and use facts that are relevent and not make stuff up. I am also dissapointed that you say I twist peoples words. That is not true, I use words the way they are meant to be used and in context unless there is a specific reason not to and then I make it clear such as the example above. No, I did not twist anybody's words but you did and very much so. And finally, yes, I think that it was immoral and unfair for you to try to twist my words even if it was so obvious and unsuccessful. Hawkrod

[19674x4]

so your saying that 2 brand new 1969 f100's both built identical with matching 360's and c6's and everything built the same way by the same assembly line worker(no robots back then)rolled off the line and put in a drag race with no human control, would end up in an exact tie?

[71Ford100]

First off I ain't your boy and don't you EVER call me that again as age does not matter. There is no such thing as two identical engines something will ALWAYS be different even if the mains are torqued one degree difference they are not identical which is what I am saying. It amy not make a mentionable difference but they are indeed different. Generally yes a good ol'e 360 or 390 is going to respond to a modification the same way but there is always the off chance it isn't going to so it just doesn't make any sense to say it will always do this or that (unless you can predict the future). Also you acknowledge that wear does matter which is a key point in this because just how many 360's or 390's out there don't have any where on them?
Yes, i am being extremely technical but in reality no two engines are exactly the same especially as they age and are used like the engines in our trucks. There are about 5 million different factors that could be considered in this so it is really pointless to focus on one or two to make broad assumptions.

I was using the mustangs as a principle not as a rule and just an fyi both do have the same cam's computer settings and all that good stuff. I don't care what titles degrees or whatever you have because a title doesn't mean anything without experience, and every persons experiences on here are different which is why this is such a great site. But to say that everyone else's experiences and opinions are wrong and one's is always correct is just ignorance at best.

As far as word twisting and whatnot I have seen you do it many many times and if you would like to dicuss that further my e-mail, phone number, address and pm is wide open as this doesn't need to be continued on here and is way off subject from the original posters question. I'm done wasting my breath as others have before me and it has yet to produce any results.

[Hawkrod]

so your saying that 2 brand new 1969 f100's both built identical with matching 360's and c6's and everything built the same way by the same assembly line worker(no robots back then)rolled off the line and put in a drag race with no human control, would end up in an exact tie?

Good point, I did overstate that. Some variance will be the norm but it would be extremely minor but it does exist. Hawkrod

[Hawkrod]

First off I ain't your boy and don't you EVER call me that again as age does not matter. snip.

I did not call you boy, I said "Boy, you make a lot of assumptions". Again you decided to read what you wanted into it. Boy is a colloquialism that means Wow, Holy cow, I can't believe what I am hearing etc... As far as further discussion, I always keep my discussions public as I have nothing to hide. Hawkrod

[71Ford100]

Normally I wouldn't waste my time nor lower myself to this level BUT sometimes a person just can't help it. Answer me this Hawk, in a nice short summary not some long BS story. Why must you and your opinion/answer always be superior to anyone elses? Why do you feel that no one else's opinion can be right or why must you find some little technicality in it and exploit it to make them and there answer seem completely wrong?

I am going to say right now that I apologize to the original poster that this is taking place on your thread as I tried to take it off forum.

[Hawkrod]

Normally I wouldn't waste my time nor lower myself to this level BUT sometimes a person just can't help it. Answer me this Hawk, in a nice short summary not some long BS story. Why must you and your opinion/answer always be superior to anyone elses? Why do you feel that no one else's opinion can be right or why must you find some little technicality in it and exploit it to make them and there answer seem completely wrong?

I am going to say right now that I apologize to the original poster that this is taking place on your thread as I tried to take it off forum but that isn't the way Hawk wants it done (so its not going to happen that way no matter what I guess).

My answer is not always superior to anybody elses. I also do not look for some technicality to make other peoples responses wrong. I simply deal in facts and avoid the emotional posting when I can. Sometimes I can't such as when I am misquoted as it offends me greatly. Other people can be right and often are in which case I usually simply do not respond and just a minor point but before you even posted this I pointed out that I was wrong and somebody else was right. The problem is you are reading what you want into the exchange not what is actually being said. I am sorry if you do not like the way I communicate or do not like the way I prefer to use the language but that is simply part of who I am and comes with my disorder which has been discussed many times before. Disliking somebody because of their disability is pretty sad. Hawkrod

[FORDification]

OK, this thread has more than outlived it's usefullness....and is now locked.