Should washers and/or lockwashers be used on engine towers?

[robroy]

Good morning,

I'm re-installing the engine mount towers on my frame, and am getting trigger-happy with all the nice Grade Eight hardware I see at the store.

When I pulled the towers it looked like the factory used a simple bolt and nut combo to mount the towers, yet I've been thinking that washers and/or lockwashers would be a good addition.

Is there any reason not to use washers on these mounts?



Thanks!
-Robroy

[fireguywtc]

Can't see any reason why not, that is definetly not something you want to ever come loose. IMO the more secure the better for the engine towers.

[fordman]

lock washers on the nuts will be a good idea. i was thinking they originally had them with the nut. but maybe not. the flat washers really wont do much for you. those are mainly like a shim if the bolts arent the correct sizes for the holes. they also can act as a anti pull through device if there was a chance of the bolt pulling through the perch holes. if you have power steering and the wrong perch you might not want or be able to get a washer on the top rear drivers side bolt. it could interfear with the remounting of the steering box.

[willowbilly3]

Ford liked those pinched locknuts but I see no reason not to use lock washers. I am like you, I love those grade 8 bolts and I have got where I buy them for almost everything. Grade 5 at least and hardly ever the common ones. One thing I do is drop a size for the flat washers. If you get a 3/8 washer for a 3/8 bolt, they are sloppy but the 5/16 washer fits nicely on the 3/8 bolt. Same with the other sizes too, almost always I drop a size for the flat washer.

[Ranchero50]

From experience (industrial) you don't use both a washer and a lock washer together. The washer will limit the effectiveness of the lock washer because the washer 'slips' and can allow the nut to back off even with the lock washer.

In that application I'd never use a lock washer beause under loads and vibrations they tend to split apart making the bolt / nut sloppy loose.

Another area for concern is torque ratings on bolts. Don't tighten it till you fart or it will fail down the road. Also zinc coated bolts have different torque ratings vs standard uncoated bolts and oil really screws with the torque values.

If you want to put it together and not worry about it either reuse the original hardware or get some Nordlocks;

http://www.nord-lock.com/

They are two special serated washers that grip the nut and part and have serations that pull a heavy load to remove the bolt. They work extremely well.

Fastenall sells tham and they have some really good info on hardware and it's application on their web site and master catalogs.

Jamie

[robroy]

Good morning FireguyWTC, Fordman, WillowBilly3 and Jamie,

Thanks for the advice!

Fordman, thanks for the warning about mounting the power steering box! Since my truck has manual steering I may not run in to this.

WillowBilly3, thanks for the advice on trying to drop down a size on the washers; I hadn't thought of this. I'll have both 3/8" and 5/16" of all washers on hand to see which fits better before installing.

Jamie, great information on the Nord Locks! I ordered a box of 5/16" and another of 3/8" to see which fits better on the 3/8" bolts. I ordered from clipsandfasteners.com since they showed up in the Google Shopping output for Nord Lock. It sounds like these are the best option!

Jamie, should I use two Nord Locks per bolt (one at the bolt head and another at the nut), or just one at the nut?

Also, it's true that an air wrench will take these things off without too much trouble right?

Thanks again folks for the great advice!
-Robroy

[Ranchero50]

It all depends on how tight you put them together. One nordlock per bolt, on the nut side. Usually tight putting together equals tight coming back apart. You'll get the feel of one when you try one out. You can't reuse them though. I did the exhaust and intake bolts on my projects. Carb bolts too. These things are worth every penny for the exhaust because they don't loosen when the plumbing heats and cools.

Jamie

[robroy]

Hey Jamie, thanks! This is an awesome thing to become aware of. Maybe I'll use them to bolt my headers to the engine as well.

-Robroy

[FORDification]

...Another area for concern is torque ratings on bolts. Don't tighten it till you fart or it will fail down the road....Jamie

Now THERE'S the quote of the day!

[willowbilly3]

From experience (industrial) you don't use both a washer and a lock washer together. The washer will limit the effectiveness of the lock washer because the washer 'slips' and can allow the nut to back off even with the lock washer.

In that application I'd never use a lock washer beause under loads and vibrations they tend to split apart making the bolt / nut sloppy loose.

Another area for concern is torque ratings on bolts. Don't tighten it till you fart or it will fail down the road. Also zinc coated bolts have different torque ratings vs standard uncoated bolts and oil really screws with the torque values.

If you want to put it together and not worry about it either reuse the original hardware or get some Nordlocks;

http://www.nord-lock.com/

They are two special serated washers that grip the nut and part and have serations that pull a heavy load to remove the bolt. They work extremely well.

Fastenall sells tham and they have some really good info on hardware and it's application on their web site and master catalogs.

Jamie

Jamie, those Nordlocks look like the ticket, thanks for that link. I'm not sure I totally agree on the oil thing though. I would never torque a headbolt or bearing cap dry.

[Ranchero50]

Willow, neither would I, but then the torque values in the manueals are for oiled threads.

Some good reads.

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechMetals.html

http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/TechWhy.html

ARP is real specific about torque values, dry, oiled, and ARP lubed.

Some more good reading from Fastenall. I have this book from a class they gave at work. Read it cover to cover or print it out. Great bathroom reading.

http://www.fastenal.com/content/documen ... eGuide.pdf

Jamie

[Ranchero50]

Yep, that's them. Bagel sandwich is right. The nordlock brand has them glued together. Fastenal makes them too.

Jamie

[robroy]

Hey Jamie, thanks!

When installing the engine mount tower bolts, would you recommend using a washer under the bolt head and a Nordlock under the nut? Or no washer under the bolt head?

Good to know these Nordlocks are genuine bagel sandwiches!

-Robroy

[Ranchero50]

As long as the bolts fit nicely in the towers I would not install the washers. I the tower holes are washed out I would consider grade 8 washers. Nordlocks at the nut.

Jamie

[robroy]

Hey Jamie, thanks! Yes, the bolts fit nicely in the towers. By being washed out, do you mean elongated/widened due to physical trauma?

Thanks for all your great advice Jamie,
-Robroy