Which flowmaster's best for Proformanceunlimited's 400HP FE?

[DuckRyder]

http://www.fordification.com/forum/view ... hp?t=19651

There are a couple more but I haven't been able to find them...

[BiggDogg]

Hey Robroy, check out this topic here... there are some videos of variious exhaust notes from members trucks as well as a few others: http://www.fordification.com/forum/view ... hp?t=31681

[BiggDogg]

Muffler flow tests From Broaderperformance.com:

"This is a chart of popular performance and a few stock type mufflers I have tested on our flow bench. These were all the most popular mufflers sold and installed at a local exhaust shop. Straight pipes have been tested and are used to compare these mufflers to "potential" flow of a muffler. When running a performance muffler on the street there are many more things to consider then just good flow. For instance pleasant tone and enough sound reduction to avoid any "unwanted" attention from local authorities. One thing to keep in mind is how restrictive tailpipes are. You can have a great flowing muffler but if your tailpipes are restrictive you may not be getting any gain from loud, high flow, and not to mention sometimes "expensive" mufflers."

[robroy]

'Evening Robert and BiggDogg,

Thanks for the great links and information!

That's interesting that the Borla muffler performed so well on the flow test. Just earlier in the day my friend's buddy told me that the Borla mufflers are premium and come stock on some Corvettes.

Does anybody have experience with Borla mufflers on our trucks?

Thanks again folks,
-Robroy

[Ranchero50]

Borlas are very nice for fella's with deep pockets, they are very quiet running. I really like the magnaflows on the ranchero, but the MAC's on the '93 390RWHP stang are very nice as well, no drone but really talk to you at WOT.

As said above, don't sweat the muffler if you chose to run muffler shop crimp pipes. I hand fabricate my exhaust out of mandrel bent J pipes from Summit Racing. Takes some time, but the results are just plain awesome flow wise.

Jamie

[robroy]

Good morning Jamie,

I'm not sure what muffler shop crimp pipes are--are those the pipes that have "wrinkles" on the inside of the bend?

If I want to avoid these pipes, what's the special lingo for me to hand to the exhaust shop? That I want "mandrel bent" pipes?

Any other folks with opinions on Borlas?

Thanks very much!
-Robroy

[robroy]

Good morning BiggDogg,

The muffler flow comparison chart you posted is really interesting. If the chart included another column with sound level measurements (objective measurements in dB) it would be fascinating to check that out.

The Borlas do seem to be about 2x or 3x the price of a Magnaflow.

For instance, the Borla Turbo XL muffler (40665) measuring 19" long, 4" high, and 9.5" wide with 2.5" input and output can be had for $150-$200.

The Magnaflow 11216 with similar measurements and specs looks like it's around $70.

This could explain why a Google video search for Borlas yields mainly expensive cars (Porche, Corvette, Mustang Cobra, Ford GT). I did see one post of a Ford Focus though!

-Robroy

[Ranchero50]

J bends; Usually it takes four or five to do a car and two to three 10' sticks. I get the straight pipe from a muffler shop or the wholesaler. 3" was $23 per stick last time I did one so you are looking at @ $200 in pipe plus mufflers to do a NASCAR quality job.

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch ... &N=700+115

I would suggest talking to the shops you are looking to have the work done by and showing them what you want done. Crimp pipe bends are horrible and flow 40-60% as much as mandrel bends. A good speed shop will be enthusiastic about this work, a muffler shop will do a hack job.


Some pics of the ranchero's 3" 304 stainless exhaust. It was sourced from the dairy I used to work at when we redid some plumbing ($1000 worth of pipe and fittings recycled). I do this with the summit J bends as well, just figure the angles, cut the pipe with a bandsaw and butt welded together with a regular mig welder. Notice the header flanges welded on behind the magnaflow mufflers and also notice the X pipe that eliminates all the drone at 2,000rpm that Flowmasters and H pipes are infamous for.


Another shot of the bends. This truck is powered by a '88 mustang 302 with a Cobra intake and 1.72 roller rockers. The exhaust is headman 1 5/8" longtubes into the stainless X pipe, magnaflow 3" mufflers and out the back behind the tires. It will outlast the truck and maybe me before it rust's out.


The work is easy to do, just put the truck on four stands and then put each muffler on a pair of stands where it will end up then connect the dots. Add some salvaged OEM hangers and it's done. The ranchero took the better part of a day to fit and weld.

Jamie

[robroy]

Hi Jamie, thanks for the great post! It looks like you did a really clean job.

I'll talk to the shop I was planning on hiring about the mandrel bends and see how enthusiastic they sound. It's an old fashioned, unique exhaust shop that works on plenty of custom jobs (not a Midas or anything!), so hopefully they'll know what I'm asking for.

As for doing the work myself, I don't know how to weld and I own zero welding tools so I'll have to hire it out.

Thanks again Jamie,
-Robroy

[suavematt]

That is a really pretty lookin' exhaust job there!
I had a buddy in highschool with a 68' short-box chebby & a built 350 with a RV cam' & we put two flowmaster 40's on his 2.5" dual exhaust with an H-pipe & I really enjoy'd the sound. But in my 72' Mustang I a brand of Aluminum mufflers made by a company called MAKO (has an emblem of a lil' Mako-shark under the name) & I would recommend them to anyone that was in 1999... even after daily-driving that car for 5 yrs & on the beach just about every other weekend & most of the summer ... Even though mosr of the Stang's fenders/1/4-panels are well-rusted
The Mufflers are still solid as when I had em' installed Later!

~ Suave'

[robroy]

Good morning,

About how much should I expect to pay to get exhaust with mandrel bends? If a regular exhaust job (just pipes and welding--I'll bring them the mufflers and headers) is $650, how much more would a mandrel bent job be? $1,000? Or more?

Thanks very much for all the great advice folks,
-Robroy

[Ranchero50]

You really need to find a friend who can fab and weld and quite honestly you should do the headers yourself when you install the motor. I did a friends '87 T-bird with 2.5" and dynomax ultra flows for $200.

With shop rates going over $70/hr it's going to get expensive quick. If you go over the rear axle it's going to be expensive. If you go to the bumper it's even more. Luckily a truck has a lot of straight runs.

Once again, talk to the shops and get some ideas.

Jamie

[AK F100]

That's kinda a bummer about the Flowmaster's not flowing very well. I really like the sound of the 50 and 40 Series and was planing on using one of the two for my bump. Never know, I still might. Good info.

[BobbyFord]

That's kinda a bummer about the Flowmaster's not flowing very well. I really like the sound of the 50 and 40 Series and was planing on using one of the two for my bump. Never know, I still might. Good info.

I had 2 1/2 inch Magnaflow's on my mild 390 in my 63, plumbed all the way out the rear. It really sounded good. No Flowmaster drone and pretty quiet at an idle, but when you mashed on it, it really sounded good. Real throaty but not with the dreaded Flowmaster drone. You may find that you like the Magnaflow sound better, check it out...

[bobbyinpd]

FWIW, a guy on an engine forum did a dyno test using the same engine with different exhaust and found that Flowmasters actually hurt performance, considerably. The winner of the test were MagnaFlow and DynoMax.
I think the MagnaFlow's sound better than the SlowMaster's anyway...

I agree and have proven this on the Dyno at my old work with my race car. We were required to have a muffler to race at Irwindale and Orange Show. I had a single 3" flowmaster 40 Series and it dynoed at 379 HP and 385TQ with the 500cfm 2bbl, stock Chevy exhaust manifolds, and dual 2.5" int 3" ypipe to the muffler. Changed it to a straight thru Borla and went up to 394HP and 397TQ. Not Bad for 10 minutes with the sawzall and the welder! By the way, now that that motor is in my Unlimited Class Autocross Car, with open Ceramic Coated Dyantech headers and a 4 barrel 750 Holley and a 2" Carb spacer, it now makes 502HP and 482TQ. Not Bad for a .040" over 350 with Camelhump heads and 1.94" intake Valves!! All Dyno numbers are at the wheels with a M-20 Muncie and a Ford 9" with 7.00 gears and a spool.

If you want a chambered muffler, Get the hooker aero chamber, a 3" aero chamber flows better than a piece of 2.5" straight pipe, and out flows all other chamber mufflers in its size by 23% or something like that.