1969 Ford Crew Cab / Cummins Project

[Wes]

yup your right that why it looked short to me.

[averagef250]

Just food for thought.... You guys taken an up close look at a cummins dodge 4x4 frame? An old ford frame makes one look like a toy. They're stamped from 10 gauge steel. Fords are twice the thickness and they're boxed in the front too.

I pull trannies from them all the time and have to use a hi-lift between the rails to get the tranny crossmember in and out.

Point being the stock highboy frame has got to be more than stout enough for the 5.9 if dodge gets away with what they do.

[customcrewcab]

freind of mine dad runs a sunstate yard and said they like the cummings but hated the chassis under those trucks. said ford made a much stronger truck.

[HRDROKN]

OK... Been so busy with other things these last couple weeks. I found a D80 rear with 4.10's and a LSD (powerlock) and a nice buildable low miles Cummins for the project. With the acquisition of new axles I will be selling what is under the truck currently.....

A D60 rear, 4.88's, detroit locker and they said alloy axles?

D44HD front, 4.88's, open knuckle, disc, & detroit locker.

I'll be picking up the motor and the D80 next week... here are some of the latest picks. I have a tentative plan for the frame rail mods, just need to get the motor to verify that the plan will come together.





This is the reinforcement for the cross member and motor mounts....

[HRDROKN]

Just thinking out loud for a moment.... my plan is to go to a passenger side drop D60 front and use the dodge version of the NP205 with the 29 spline input for strength. Looking at the chassis centerline it looks like everything (motor/trans) is shifted to the p-side for drivers side drop clearance. So I think it would be wise to hold off on welding in the floors in case I have to modify the hump for trans clearance

Anyone have experience with this one?

[averagef250]

Good luck! Ford drivetrain is offset 3" to the passenger side. Try to squeeze yourself a passenger side t-case, front driveline and 4" downpipe in there.

What kind of passenger offset 60 are you planning to run? The dodge balljoint CAD version? The D44 HD you have is likely tougher than the turd 30 spline CAD dodge pile. Seen several of those broken in 1/2 at the CAD.

Why not drop the dodge 29 spline input in a Ford 205 case, redrill the Ford 205 case to match the dodge adapter and bolt it to your tranny?

You can also sell your NV4500 for $1500 and buy a ford diesel ZF 5 speed for under $500, a destroked plate for $800 and bolt a Ford 205 right up to it and have better ratios than the NV4500.

[HRDROKN]

Good luck! Ford drivetrain is offset 3" to the passenger side. Try to squeeze yourself a passenger side t-case, front driveline and 4" downpipe in there.

Hmmmmm..... and to offset everything to the drivers would require some firewall/tranny hump mods? So it looks like the best optional plan is to pick up a drivers side drop TC and use a Ford D60.

I'll be picking up my motor on Monday and I'm off all week, so hopefully I can get some decisions finalized and some progress made

[averagef250]

The passenger offset makes a lot of sense when you really look at how everything works together. In order to center the drivetrain or offset it the other way you're looking at changing everything.

The Ford HP60 fronts are such a better axle than any passenger drop low pinion 60 out there that it doesn't make sense.

The other thing is all the dodge T-cases, except the first gen cummins stuff is drivers drop anyway. You can run the 241DHD with some frame notching if you wanted to.

The Ford transmissions fit the best and make life easy in the long run. The ZF5 uses the same mounts, there are no adapters to fit a 205 case on it. Ford trannies have the best ratios too. The only downside to running a ZF with the cummins is with the cummins' single mass flywheel you will have a lot of gear clatter. The Nv4500 and NV5600 are iron cased and the iron absorbs the gear clatter noises, aluminum case trannies amplify the sound, but it doesn't hurt the tranny at all.

[Ranchero50]

Yep, as Dustin says the ZF's are nice trannys for Fords. In my 2wd 6.9 swap I was forced to do a body lift to clear the tranny body. Hopefully you'll be able to drop your motor in the frame some more than I was (my drivers exhaust ran into the 2wd power steering box)

Jamie

[HRDROKN]

Thanks Guys...

I'm going to be looking into this ZF vs NV tranny issue and see what turns up. Hopefully I can get to the real deal and not just opinions. Thanks to A..F250 I at least have some new information that I can go searching on

[averagef250]

The ZF's are really tough. A customer has a diesel S5-42 that I built for him behind a cammed P7100 24 valve in an F-350 4x4 and it's holding up great. He's running right at the limit of what the best south bend organic clutch can hold.

I think the sole reason the ZF's aren't as popular as the NV4500's is they aren't nearly as user friendly. If you don't have the right tools, books and a bearing heater you may not get far working on one. I don't see many ZF 5 speeds fail and when they do, I think running plain dex3 instead of synthetic or not changing the fluid every 15K has a lot to do with it.

I have seen several of the S5-42 diesel bellhousings crack in 4x4's that are beat hard. The one I built for the P7100 24 valve I reinforced the bellhousing by welding strips of 1/4"X2" 6061 flat bar to it in several places.

Some say the ZF's don't shift as nice as the NV's, but I don't have a problem with them. My DD has a ZF5 in it with 150K on it and it shifts nice and as fast as I want to row.

If you want the toughest tranny you can put in a pickup go buy an eaton 6 speed for $2500+ and figure out how to adapt a t-case. If your heart's set on the NV4500 buy a new TK from quad for $3500 or so and spend a bunch on t-case adapters. If you're breaking the NV4500 with power or can't stand it's ratios then go with the ZF S6-650. The NV5600 is another option, they are a pretty good tranny, but really, really suck for getting parts if you do break one. The 5600 had such a short run that the aftermarket really isn't embacing them at all. I can buy anything for the Ford S6-650. The GM duramax S6-650 is a different story, GM is the only source for many of thier parts.

[Pipes71]

hey I got a hole on the pass side of the engine crossmember just like that! Someone decided that they needed it because they had a front sump oil pan in mine and it was easier to cut a hole in the crossmember to drain the oil then it was to get the right pan.

[HRDROKN]

Well it has been a while since updating this project and I thought I would be further along, but all work and no play.... well you know what i mean

Getting ready to fab some motor mounts and a new cross member. I will be positioning the cross member about where the motor mounts are. Then I will completely remove the factory x-member, this should give me all the room needed for the a/c compressor I will at that point build new frame rails from the factory box section forward. This will solve two or three of my problems.

First.... it will solve the hacked up drivers side frame rail.
Second..... it will add some length to mount the longer superduty springs.
Third.... a/c pump clearance.

Here some x-member fabrication pics....

[71 LONG BED]

Looks like the gallery is down I will post pics as soon as it is up!

Oh no, I can't wait. Can you download them to photobucket and link them? I think the gallery is down indefinitly. It's has been down for awhile.

[HRDROKN]

Gotta love Craigslist.... picked up a married NP205 today for $75