Starter short = near meltdown

[Sharkdance]

Greetings all,

Not a happy moment today. My truck suffered a near meltdown at the gas pump today while starting.
It seems that the starter shorted out and caused the cables to melt off the solonoid when I tried to start her up after filling up with gas. Scary moment to say the least!

I guess if I where to start from the beginning of my little tale of woe I would have to explain why I think it has to be the starter.
A few days ago when I turned the key my truck didnt start. It just clicked. That is unusual because while my truck may look old and ugly to most I am a nut about keeping it in top running order. Were talking about a truck that normaly starts right up every time with no more than two pumps of the accellerator and 4 revolutions of the crankshaft.
From day one, she has NEVER given me a problem starting.

So, when she didnt start right up, I automaticaly figured it was the batterey or the starter solonoid. Both were fine.
But I tested the battery (12.6V) and replaced the solonoid anyway. I figured for $7.99 why wait for a solonoid to fail before replacing it and the one that was still on the truck at the time was the one that came with it when I bought it. It wasnt new, but it was obviously newer than the factory one from 35 years ago.
Anyway, while I was at the parts store, I picked up new cables (All three of them) at the same time.

When I got back home and was installing all of the new parts I noticed that the stud that sticks out of the starter (the one that the cable goes to) was just a tad bit loose. No big deal I thought as I may have loosened the lock nut that keeps it tight in the starter case while I was taking off the old cable.
I just re-tightened it before I put the new cable on and lo and behold, my old girl was back to being her old self again. Startin right up like a charm.
All was well with the world again. But that was a few days ago.

This morning I climb in to the cab as Im on my way to work and as usual, two pumps. A momentary turn of the key and the exhaust pipes rumble to life. I love the sound of my old truck in the quiet morning. How it cracks the silence with a gradualy quickening idle before the automatic choke warms up. And I sit for a few letting the engine warm up.
Then, one tap of the pedal and she settles down to an almost loping idle.
Im sure I always get a smile on my face as I drop the shifter into reverse and hear the idle change once more just as the drivetrain clinks into motion. Now Im off to work.

At lunch time, I go thru my daily ritual of clocking out and walking out to my truck, climbing in, and starting her up to take me to my choice of lunch treat that day. No problems, starts right up like always.
Except today hapens to be friday and I notice the gas guage is a little low so I go to the gas station first. Nothing unusual there. The dude there knows me cuz I get my gas thier all of the time. In fact, when he see,s my green and primer beast pull up he usualy already has the pump reset for me so I dont have to go in untill Im done pumping. Today was no acception.
I pump 12+ gallons of fuel, cap the tank. Go inside to pay and grab a cold drink on the way out. Hop into my truck, turn the key and she starts right up. Except now the starter is hung in the start position! Making an awful grinding noise!
I imediatly turn the key off and the truck shuts off.
Well, that was strange I thought, but I was still at the pump and didnt want to block the traffic while lifting the hood to check it out. I will just try the key one more time I thought. She will start right up Im sure. That must have been just a fluke.
Turn the key and ,, "click!" no start. - Again ,,, "click!" no start. Once more,, "click!" still no start.
What the devil is going on I think. Thats when I take my eyes off of the voltmeter and my left hand with the key in it to notice smoke now billowing from the right side of my grill. rolling out accross the front of the hood.
I bolt out the cab! Snatch the hood release and fling the hood open!
My eyes scan straight to the problem. There it is! The cable between the starter and the solonoid melting down before my eyes. I grab for the negative battery cable. Of course because its a brand new cable I had just tightend it and there was no removing it by hand at the moment. Especialy as it kept getting hotter and hotter by the second.

This is where I will offer some advice to anyone reading this post. Always keep a 1/2" wrench in your cab that you can reach easily.
I remembered that I had a couple of wrenches in my console that I hadnt put away yet so I dash back for the cab and grab them to remove the battery cable before my meltdown becomes even worse.
Well, its amasing how fast you can unbolt a battery cable when its frying in your hands and your heart is racing as you remember that your standing right next to a gas pump.

I got it off, pushed my now crippled girl back off the pump and walked back to work from there. Had to call a flat bed to take her home because I wasnt about the leave her there and didnt savy changing a starter, cables and who knows what else on an automatic 360 with headers in the parking lot of a gas station. Not a fun job.

I guess I should have change the starter before hand as well when I changed the solonoid and cables.
Or now that Im thinking about it. Maybe it could be the key switch causing all of this.
Ive even heard stories about older fords melting down due to low voltage of faulty grounds because the solonoid gets hung up. You think thats possible?

Anyway, Im sorry this has turned into such a long post. If you have taken the time to read thru it, then thank you.
Sometimes it just feels good to tell someone about a situation like this and think they might actualy be able to relate to it.

Thanks for listening.

Sharkdance

[Sharkdance]

Update:

Well, it looks like I may have fixed the symptom but not the problem.
After replacing the starter, solonoid, & cables I can start my truck without another meltdown but I dont feel that that was the problem.
The problem, Im afraid is the rats nest wiring harness under the dash.

I started early this morning removing the batterey and melted down cables and then bagan the task of removing the right side header so that I could then remove the starter. Sounds easy right?
Well, it should have been. Except removing the header involved dealing with the broken off bolts in the exhaust side of the head.
I knew I was in for trouble when I saw the access hole that the previous owner had cut into the inner fender well.
It seems that (Probably while he was putting the headers on) he had broken off 3 of the exhaust manifold bolts into the head.
One was a non issue because it had been drilled and helicoiled correctly. Actualy a pretty nice job.
The other two however were not so nice. One was just a simple broken off stud with no attempt to fix it.
To this day Im still not sure how he got that header to seal. I just know that it didnt leak when I bought it and I wasnt going to mess with it untill it did.
I had seen the broken bolt previously so I knew it was there. I had also known about the access hole cut into the fender well so I figured he had tried to fix it but have up after cutting the hole and realizing that even with his newly cut hole he still couldnt get the right angle to drill out the bolt with a conventional drill. BUT.....
As I took things apart I noticed that he did try to fix it. Well, at least one of them anyway.
After removing the header I noticed that he had tried to drill out at least one of the bolts. But appearently he didnt have a sharp drill bit or something because instead of drilling out the bolt he drilled a new hole atan angle right next to it. Then he put thru that hole a bolt with a nut on the other side.

Anyway, it took me several hours, but I was able to fix what he did by correctly drilling out the two broken studs and installing good solid helicoils.
Now I could put the header back on with the correct size header bolts and have a good chance it will seal.

Next, Clean up and head to the parts store:
I had to go to two different parts stores to get most of the parts I needed. (big sigh)
I got a reman starter, new cables, new header bolts, and a set of FelPro exhaust manifold gaskets because neither parts store had a set of actual header gaskets. Took almost two hours to get everything too because apearantly around here the local parts stores can only hire morons.
When you tell them what you need they have to ask you questions that have nothing to do with your parts needs simply because thier computer screen tells them to ask.

Back at the house in the driveway sits my old girl, waiting for me to make her feel better. Lookin so old but yet eager to get back on the road.
I spend the next hour wrestling the starter and header into place and double up the two stock type exhaut manifold gaskets to hopefully seal the header. It works fine. Just not what I wanted.
Now comes the moment of truth. one turn of the key and she roars to life. sittn there idling like she always does. Im proud of what Ive done and now Im happy again. My old girl is back running and in the process I went ahead and took care of a problem I knew about (The broken bolts) but was dreading doing. All is right with the world again.
Thats when I notice that there is a red reflection in the grill of my wifes car which is parked behind my truck. It was my brake lights reflecting back at me.
Whaaaa? I walk back to the rear of my truck and sure enough my brake lights are now on bright as they could be.
Turn the key off, now thier off. Turn the key back on, now thier back on. WTF!

A quick glance under the dash reveals a softball sized ball of wires with 3 tie straps holding them together.
A look a little deeper and I can see the brake light switch only has one wire going to it. The other side of the switch has a short frayed wire hanging from it with no obvious mate.

My question is: How the hell can the brake lights work with only one wire going to it and how the hell can I trust that I wont have another meltdown caused by this wiring nightmare?
Im not sure what to expect now and dont know if I should suspect the ignition switch too as a culprit to my lighting and ignition problems.

Oh well, the afternoon thunderstorms have driven me inside for the rest of the day so I guess Ill take another look at it in the morning. Ill update then.

Again thanks for listening.
Im open to any advise or comments.

Sharkdance

[granitestate68]

Welcome to the club of crash and burn.

Sorry to hear about your problems, that sucks! I'm working on getting a new harness myself. As soon as you said rats nest, that would pretty much mirror mine. Good luck with fixing it.

How bad were your knees shaking at the gas station when you finally got the cable off? I know I was in the front yard and had just tightened the cable when mine went up in smoke and got a huge blood blister on the inside of my hand trying to get that damn cable off. I almost just ripped that SOB out of the truck with one huge yank. Then had a few frosties to calm me down. Man the neighborhood heard some beauts that night.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

Lee

[hardtailjohn]

I hate it when they do that!!! I've had more "gremlins" from other idiots' wiring jobs than anything else!!! I feel for ya guys.. wish I was closer, so I could lend a hand!
John H.

[jor]

I sympathize with your misfortune but I gotta say that I certainly enjoy reading your posts! I'm curious about this meltdown. It sounds as though the wire from the solenoid to the starter had a direct short. When you connect that wire on a truck with headers there isn't much room between the wire and the header. (my Hookers allow for about an inch or so)

I admire your helicoil work. I always drill at an angle and get it wrong. Good luck and keep posting. How about some photos, btw.
jor

[Sharkdance]

I sympathize with your misfortune but I gotta say that I certainly enjoy reading your posts! I'm curious about this meltdown. It sounds as though the wire from the solenoid to the starter had a direct short. When you connect that wire on a truck with headers there isn't much room between the wire and the header. (my Hookers allow for about an inch or so)

I admire your helicoil work. I always drill at an angle and get it wrong. Good luck and keep posting. How about some photos, btw.
jor

Greetings,

Thank you for the compliment. I was afraid that I was a bit too wordy in my posts. I enjoy talking with others who can apreciate these old trucks so I tend to run off at the mouth a bit when I do,

As far as the cause of the meltdown I was convinced that it was a dead short from within the starter itself because the age of the old starter was unknown and I had just had to tighten up the stud that sticks out of it when I replaced the cable.
Im not convinced that it was the cable itself that shorted because I had inspected the old one and even though it was melted down it didnt appear to have made contact with anything that it wasnt supposed to.
I dont believe the new cable shorted because I am meticulous about any work that i do to my truck and in most cases am accused of going overboard with anything that I do to it. It may look old. But it runs REALY well!
Anyway, I did make sure that the cable was installed correctly and wasnt shorting out on anything before the meltdown.

Yes I know about the clearance problems between headers and stock type ford starters. There is like practicaly none! And the cable connected to it must be routed perfectly or the heat from the headers will burn it up.
Hooker headers are among the best there are for these old trucks but they still are a tangled mess of pipes that barely clears strater and cable.
They must be built differently than these Headman headers I have because if you have an inch of clearance after they are installed thats like the Grand Canyon compared to the clearance I have.
When mine are installed I have maybe enough space to slide a stack of 3 or 4 business cards between the header and the starter.

Thanks for the compliment on the Hecicoil work. Im proud of that myself.
The key is to take your time and mast importantly have a good sharp drill bit and be able to get at it at the correct angle.
If you cant get id drilled out perfectly there is nothing wrong with putting a bolt thru the hole and putting a nut on the other side. Of course that only works if its one of the top row of bolts in the head.

I can snap a few pix but the repair work has already been done so I dont have any before pix. An FE head with headers looks like an FE head with headers except most of them have broken off bolts in them.

I promised someone else that I would take some pix of my seat so Me thinks Ill spend a little time outside with Mr. Digital camera today.
I need to go look at my wiring harness under my dash anyway.

Sharkdance
Sharkdance

[Sharkdance]

granitestate68, Thanks for the reply.
Im finding out that most of these old trucks have the same issue under the dash. Gnarled up mess of a wiring harness makes for seroius head scratching sometimes.

Yea , my knees were kinda shaky after all of that happend right next to a gas pump. Im just glad that I had a wrench handy because before I thought about that I was looking around me for something big enough to beat the solonoid off of it to stop it from frying the rest of the truck down.
The walk back to work helped calm me down. All I could think of was getting my truck out of that gas station parking lot.
After I had pushed her back away from the pumps I was sitting there trying to figure out what to do when some guy pulled up and asked if he could help.
I said no but thanks it was just the starter but then he kinda looked over the truck and looked at me and said: "You wanna sell it?"
I had to bite my tongue because I wanted to say something not very nice to him and I just answered: "No, I think Ill keep it."

I will post more updates later after I look over the wiring harness.

Sharkdance

[Sharkdance]

I hate it when they do that!!! I've had more "gremlins" from other idiots' wiring jobs than anything else!!! I feel for ya guys.. wish I was closer, so I could lend a hand!
John H.

Thanks!
I wish you were closer too. I could use a hand with this one.

Sharkdance

[flyboy2610]

Good luck with it!
When i got my truck it had a rats nest at the rear of the truck.
It took my friend (I ain't got but the one! ) and I most of the day to get the brake lights and turn signals working again.
I feel your pain!

[QC]

It probably wasn't the starters fault because if the solenoid wasn't engaged you wouldn't have any power in that cable. If that happens again you can also pull the two small wires off the solenoid and it should release if the contacts haven't welded together. I had a similar problem with a 71 I
I used to have. When I went to start it it wouldn't stop cranking. After replacing everything a couple times (including the ign. switch) I noticed that one of the wires going to the voltage regulator had melted insulation.
I replaced the old mechanical regulator with an electronic one and it solved the problem. I never did figure out how the power was feeding back from the regulator to the solenoid. I talked to some Ford mechanics and they couldn't figure it out either.

[Sharkdance]

I admire your helicoil work. I always drill at an angle and get it wrong. Good luck and keep posting. How about some photos, btw.
jor

Here are some photos of the wiring nightmare Im now dealing with under the dash. WARNING! It aint pretty!!

Sharkdance

[Sharkdance]

Here are some of the helicoil work and starter to header clearance.


Sharkdance

[Sharkdance]

Starter to header clearance

[FORDification]

That header-to-starter clearance IS pretty tight. I think I'd highly suggest using some sort of heat shield or wrap around the start to protect it, as long as you're removing it anyway. I don't know if the heat issue had anything to do this time, though it's possible, but it might prevent something similiar from happening in the future. And anything you can do to prevent you from having to remove the starter again in the future would be well worth it, I would think.

[slopjockey]

Man, that scared the Hell out of me! And I thought I had a rat`s nest. That looks like a whole rat`s ranch!